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::|»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»|::
::| Sorrow - Under The Yew Possessed |::
::| |::
::| |::
::| Artist.....> Sorrow |::
::| Album......> Under The Yew Possessed |::
::| Type.......> Album |::
::| |::
::| Label......> Piski Disk Records Rel.date..> 14.06.2006 |::
::| CatalogNr..> Pix-001 CD Str.date..> 00.00.1993 |::
::| |::
::| URL........> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rose_McDowall |::
::| |::
::| Genre......> Lo-Fi Source.......> CDDA |::
::| Style......> Lo-Fi Grabber......> EAC 0.95.5 |::
::| Encoder......> Lame 3.90.3 --APS |::
::| No.Tracks..> 21 Quality......> VBRkbps / 44,1kHz |::
::| Size.......> 136,1 MB Channel Mode.> Joint-Stereo |::
::| Length.....> CD1: 71:28 CD2: 21:14 |::
::| |::
::|_________________________________________________________________________|::
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: RELEASE NOTES ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
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::| |::
::| Rose McDowall (born on 21 October 1959) is a Scottish-born musician, |::
::| most notably as a vocalist in the bubblegum pop band Strawberry |::
::| Switchblade. |::
::| |::
::| Rose has also worked with neofolk band Death In June and experimental |::
::| band Current 93, and has featured on tracks by Psychic TV (on the 1985 |::
::| single "Godstar"), experimental groups Nurse With Wound and Coil |::
::| ("Christmas Is Now Drawing Near" on the album Moon's Milk (In Four |::
::| Phases)) |::
::| |::
::| In 1993 she worked with Boyd Rice under the band name Spell, producing |::
::| a series of airy covers of 60's ballads, and also formed her own pop |::
::| oriented neofolk band Sorrow with then-husband Robert Lee. At this time |::
::| she also formed the Piski Disk Records label (distributed through World |::
::| Serpent), which released Sorrow's albums. |::
::| |::
::| Rose McDowall (vocals, guitar) was one-half of the '80s new wave duo |::
::| Strawberry Switchblade. However, the bouncy, keyboard-laden pop of |::
::| Strawberry Switchblade bears little resemblance to the work she would |::
::| later do. McDowall formed Strawberry Switchblade in Glasgow, Scotland, |::
::| in 1981. Initially consisting of four members, McDowall named the band |::
::| after a fanzine devoted to Postcard Records. A year later, Strawberry |::
::| Switchblade's lineup was reduced to McDowall and guitarist Jill Bryson. |::
::| Performances for two radio deejays generated interest from record |::
::| labels. Bill Drummond from Warner Bros. and former Teardrop Explodes |::
::| member David Balfe became their joint managers. In 1983, Aztec Camera's |::
::| Roddy Frame contributed to the group's first single, "Trees and |::
::| Flowers." Strawbery Switchblade recorded one self-titled LP in 1985 |::
::| before splitting up a year later. After Strawberry Switchblade, |::
::| McDowall became involved with darker and far less commercial artists |::
::| like Current 93 and Nurse With Wound, acts known for delving into |::
::| gloomy folk and industrial noise; she was also a guitarist for Felt. In |::
::| the late '90s, McDowall collaborated with Robert Lee as Sorrow, |::
::| releasing the album Sleep Now and Forever. Fans of Strawberry |::
::| Switchblade will still be able to recognize McDowall's soothing voice |::
::| in her other projects; however, much of the music cannot be compared to |::
::| her early-'80s discography. |::
::| |::
::| - Michael Sutton, All Music Guide |::
::| |::
::| Sorrow is Rose McDowall and Robert Lee, to names that aren't all that |::
::| well-known in the mainstream of pop music. In the case of Robert, it's |::
::| not all that surprising, as his career has mainly involved working with |::
::| such cult figures as This Mortal Coil, Dead Can Dance, Jah Wobble and |::
::| Brian Eno. Rose McDowall, on the other hand, sits more in the category |::
::| of pop's forgotten heroes. As half of Strawberry Switchblade, Rose's |::
::| baby-doll voice and dark music, as well as the famous polka-dots, were |::
::| more than well-known. In fact, their '82 classic, 'Since Yesterday' is |::
::| still played on retro music stations. |::
::| |::
::| That was then and this is now and, over the years, Rose has worked with |::
::| seminal alternative figures, like Genesis P Orridge's Psychic TV, the |::
::| Damned and Coil. Sorrow, however, is closer to Strawberry Switchblade's |::
::| dark pop than any of those acts. This is Strawberry Switchblade grown |::
::| up, less poppy and more atmospheric, music awash with traditional and |::
::| classical instruments, topped with Rose's voice, which still has a |::
::| light baby-doll feel, but has matured and improved over the years. |::
::| |::
::| The music owes more than a nod to the aforementioned This Mortal Coil |::
::| and also to the soundtrack to the Twin Peaks TV series of a few years |::
::| ago. It is very hard to put into words, and this reviewer must bow to |::
::| the superior descriptive abilities of the press release and call it |::
::| "Dark-Ambient-Electro-Acoustic-Ether-Pop", which says it all really! |::
::| |::
::| Donnacha DeLong |::
::| |::
::| Rose McDowall interview |::
::| 29 Jan 02 |::
::| |::
::| Rose McDowall was all I expected her to be. She lives far from towns, |::
::| among big old trees befitting her pagan instincts. Her cottage is |::
::| painted in bold black and deep red, and is littered with gaudy Catholic |::
::| art. She has a big cloud of black hair, boots with huge heels and an |::
::| air of vibrant sparkle tempered with an earnestness and dynamic |::
::| emotional drive. |::
::| |::
::| She talks freely, vivaciously pouring out her feelings and memories in |::
::| such a disarmingly engaged way. Friendly, wilful, radiant, magical, she |::
::| talks until I run out of tapes. |::
::| |::
::| Generally, how does it feel looking back at Strawberry Switchblade? |::
::| |::
::| Brilliant. I think it was a totally fantastic exciting period of my |::
::| life. We were just kids really. I mean, OK, we were twenty-something, |::
::| but we were really just kids, and it just snowballed out of nothing, |::
::| just wanting to form a band and have fun. And suddenly we'd got John |::
::| Peel sessions and we only had eight songs, and we had to finish the |::
::| eighth for the session cos we had a Kid Jensen session as well. We were |::
::| getting these gigs, and then we were to do an album and we STILL only |::
::| had eight songs! It was fun and it was really exciting, to the point |::
::| that we had no clue what was going on because things went SO fast. |::
::| |::
::| Once things started to snowball it went really really quickly, which |::
::| was also the demise of Strawberry Switchblade, because the more that's |::
::| going on the less control you have over what you're doing, and the more |::
::| other people are making decisions for you. Inevitably it ends up being |::
::| not what you started out for it to be, so I didn't think it was worth |::
::| continuing because it wasn't fun any more. It was arguing with the |::
::| record company about everything, and I thought 'this was not what I |::
::| wanted'. |::
::| |::
::| What started you in music? What music did you grow up with? |::
::| |::
::| The stuff I grew up with was a lot of sixties stuff, like The Byrds, |::
::| The Beatles, Tommy James and the Shondells, I really loved stuff like |::
::| that. I was really into the Velvet Underground. I liked Roy Wood |::
::| [giggles] from the seventies. Not a lot I liked from the seventies |::
::| apart from punk, when punk set me free from my chains. So I grew up |::
::| with a lot of that [sixties stuff] cos my dad was really into music and |::
::| he liked Johnny Cash and Buddy Holly and all that sort of stuff as |::
::| well. Mamas and Papas, Simon and Garfunkel. I had three sisters and |::
::| they all liked different kinds of sixties music so I got to hear quite |::
::| a wide range of stuff and picked out the things I liked the best, which |::
::| tended to have lots of harmonies which were a bit psychedelic or the |::
::| Velvet Underground - Lou Reed was just a total genius songwriter. He is |::
::| god! |::
::| |::
::| When did you start writing yourself? |::
::| |::
::| There was a big concert in Glasgow at the Apollo Theatre, which doesn't |::
::| exist any more, I think it was a Stiff tour or something. There was |::
::| loads of different bands playing, and the Ramones were playing. I was |::
::| there with my boyfriend at the time and we just looked at each other |::
::| and thought 'if they can do it we can do it!'. They were really trashy |::
::| but really really good cos they had a real pop sensibility, and I just |::
::| love melody. So we formed a band and he was the singer, I was the |::
::| drummer, and we had a guitarist and someone else who would occasionally |::
::| play violin. |::
::| |::
::| Is that The Poems? |::
::| |::
::| The Poems, yeah. We released a single and we recorded an album, we even |::
::| mastered the album, but before the pressing the master went missing. |::
::| |::
::| Are there any copies anywhere? |::
::| |::
::| I must have a cassette copy somewhere, but I've got sooo many |::
::| cassettes. I'm going to go through them all and see if there's anything |::
::| salvageable on that cos it would be interesting for me to listen to it |::
::| again. The music was quite interesting, the instruments we used were |::
::| quite interesting, so I'd quite like to hear what it sounded like now. |::
::| |::
::| Strawberry Switchblade and The Poems did gigs together, cos I used to |::
::| organise a lot of the gigs in those days. |::
::| |::
::| So you'd be playing in both bands? |::
::| |::
::| Aye, and I'd get paid twice so it was quite good! And a quick change of |::
::| outfits from The Poems to Strawberry Switchblade, which weren't really |::
::| that different anyway; black lace frilly things for The Poems and then |::
::| polka dots for Switchblade. |::
::| |::
::| That was good fun, but then The Poems fell apart basically cos |::
::| Switchblade got busy. |::
::| |::
::| So when did Strawberry Switchblade get formed? How come one band wasn't |::
::| enough for you? |::
::| |::
::| I was sitting on a bus with James Kirk from Orange Juice. He was coming |::
::| out to my house and he'd done this fanzine called Strawberry |::
::| Switchblade. He said he wasn't going to continue doing the fanzine, I |::
::| said that's a fantastic name, it can't just die, and he said 'have it'. |::
::| I went 'really?' and he said yes, have it. So I went, that's it, and |::
::| basically I had the name Strawberry Switchblade so I had to form a band |::
::| cos it was such a good name! |::
::| |::
::| There's so much in this story that's the other way around from normal - |::
::| having a Peel session without sending in a demo, having sessions booked |::
::| without having the songs, having a name but no band. |::
::| |::
::| I know! And then I said to Jill 'I'm going to form a band' and she says |::
::| 'can I be in it?', I said, 'yeah, what do you want to do?'. She said |::
::| 'sing', I said , 'nah, I'm going to sing' |::
::| |::
::| You'd been playing drums with The Poems hadn't you? |::
::| |::
::| I'd been playing drums, yeah. So I bought myself a 12 string guitar and |::
::| taught myself to play a few chords - which is all you need to do to |::
::| write a song - and Jill bought a guitar. So she was going to be the |::
::| guitarist and I was going to be the singer. I'd do rhythm guitar and |::
::| she'd do frilly bits. |::
::| |::
::| Who were the other two? |::
::| |::
::| The other two were Janice who played the bass and Carol who was a |::
::| drummer, her brother taught her to play drums. She had two rhythms she |::
::| could play, one was for the slow songs and one was for the fast songs. |::
::| Which was OK, cos if you've only got eight songs it means you don't |::
::| have time to get bored! |::
::| |::
::| Where did you know the other three from? |::
::| |::
::| Jill I met through her boyfriend, I used to hang about with him before |::
::| she went out with him. The bass player I got through meeting her in |::
::| clubs and stuff, I didn't know her that well. And Jill knew the drummer |::
::| a little bit, so we got together that way. We didn't know them that |::
::| much when we came together but we thought we'd try it out anyway. |::
::| |::
::| Were you close to Jill before that? |::
::| |::
::| Oh yeah, Jill and I were really good friends, and we were pretty |::
::| notorious around Glasgow for going around all dressed up. Not really so |::
::| much in the early days, but when I was in The Poems I used to be |::
::| overdressed, outrageously dressed all the time. |::
::| |::
::| A lot of people forget what that meant THEN. Nowadays you can work in |::
::| offices with multi-coloured hair and eyebrow piercings, people forget |::
::| what it was like up until the eighties. |::
::| |::
::| It was, like, dangerous! It was actually dangerous, we got beat up |::
::| sometimes and stuff like that. Bikers beat me, my best friend, my |::
::| boyfriend and her boyfriend up pretty severely. We all ended up in |::
::| hospital just because we were punks and we were quite outrageously |::
::| dressed. Some guy wanted to dance with me and tried to pull me off in a |::
::| corner, I pushed him out the way, and he went off and told all his |::
::| biker friends. I was five foot nothing and wearing flat shoes and these |::
::| great big bikers come up. One had my boyfriend and put him against the |::
::| wall and he was going to put a glass in his face, and I jumped on his |::
::| back and was hanging on to his shoulders to try and pull him away, and |::
::| another biker punched me on the nose and I was out for the count. Then |::
::| I woke up and bouncers came and threw US out. |::
::| |::
::| It's a really weird thing, that rigidity of fashion at that time, how |::
::| scared people were of anything that was different. It was something the |::
::| eighties really broke down and gave individualism the chance to come |::
::| through. It's got to be emphasised that almost everyone was NOT a punk |::
::| on the late 70s, and those who were ran real risks. |::
::| |::
::| Exactly. And especially in a place like Glasgow which can be a bit |::
::| violent anyway. I suppose if you were in a little village you'd |::
::| probably get talked about and whispered about but probably not beaten |::
::| up so much. But if you're in a big city like Glasgow you have to watch |::
::| where you go. There were certain pubs you wouldn't even dare walk into. |::
::| I couldn't really go into pubs anyway cos I was always thrown out cos |::
::| they didn't believe I was old enough. Being thrown out of pubs when I |::
::| was 27, that was quite funny! |::
::| |::
::| But it was a really big deal being a punk then. |::
::| |::
::| Jill said you had to go out to Paisley to find somewhere where someone |::
::| would play the records. |::
::| |::
::| That's right, yeah. |::
::| |::
::| A city the size of Glasgow and nowhere would play the records, it was |::
::| THAT MUCH of an outsider thing. |::
::| |::
::| Right at the very beginning there was a couple of little clubs. There |::
::| was one on Buchanan Street - there's a big centre built there now - and |::
::| the DJ had two albums, one was the Damned and I think one was the |::
::| Stranglers, and a few singles and he just played them over and over |::
::| again all night. But that closed down because nobody wanted to put punk |::
::| things on, it was an affront to society. |::
::| |::
::| When punk happened it totally saved my life. I was a really fucked up |::
::| teenager who really did not want to conform to the norm, never had even |::
::| when I was a kid. I didn't want to be like everybody else because I |::
::| didn't respect them. But I was at that age where I felt 'what am I |::
::| supposed to do?', and then punk happened. 'THAT'S what I'm supposed to |::
::| do! I'm supposed to be me!'. Punk allowed me to be me without feeling |::
::| like a fake. It totally liberated me. I didn't have to be a girly girl |::
::| and it wasn't expected of me, or if it was it didn't matter. I would |::
::| probably have done the same thing anyway but been really outcast or |::
::| locked up for being a nut. My mum was always telling me I was a bit |::
::| crazy. Punk really was my saviour. It sounds like an extreme thing to |::
::| say, but for a pubescent teenage girl who's totally fucked up about |::
::| life, it was really really really my saviour. |::
::| |::
::| When did The Poems get together? |::
::| |::
::| The Poems got together in 79, I think. My first daughter was born in 79 |::
::| and I played a gig when I was pregnant, so it must've been 78 or 79. |::
::| Strawberry Switchblade got together in 80...I don't remember awfully |::
::| well! |::
::| |::
::| There's a tape of one of the really early gigs and there's a reference |::
::| to being there and missing the World Cup on TV, which would make that |::
::| summer 1982. How long did Strawberry Switchblade last as a four-piece? |::
::| |::
::| God, not very long at all. Until Strawberry Switchblade started getting |::
::| really busy actually. We became a two-piece when we started doing the |::
::| Peel sessions. I was still going to do Poems things but it was getting |::
::| a bit silly cos I was practising all the time with Strawberry |::
::| Switchblade. And also I had a daughter so Drew, my partner at the time, |::
::| he would be babysitting while I was doing Strawberry Switchblade |::
::| things. |::
::| |::
::| Eventually The Poems thing just kind of fell away, cos also the |::
::| guitarist got married and stuff and it just dissipated really. Drew had |::
::| wanted to carry it on but it just didn't work, we wouldn't have had |::
::| enough time to do it all. Didn't have time to do all the Strawberry |::
::| Switchblade, never mind anything else! |::
::| |::
::| How soon did you realise it was going to get that busy? Did you think |::
::| at the start you were going to make a go of it as a really serious |::
::| thing? |::
::| |::
::| No, we just thought 'let's join a band and have fun', cos Orange Juice |::
::| were our friends, all our friends were in bands, I was in The Poems at |::
::| the time and it was just really easy. Punk made it really easy to be in |::
::| a band as well. When I was a kid growing up that's what I always wanted |::
::| to do. I remember in school when the careers officer came round and was |::
::| asking everyone what they wanted to do, and they were saying they |::
::| wanted to be a nurse or work in a steel factory or a shipyard, and I |::
::| said I wanted to be a brain surgeon or a pop star, and everybody in the |::
::| class just started laughing. I remember when we were first on Top Of |::
::| The Pops thinking 'I wonder if any of them are watching now?' |::
::| |::
::| But I remember when I was younger thinking you have to have a manager |::
::| and you have to do all those kind of things, I hadn't a clue how you |::
::| became a pop star or really thought about what that meant, I just |::
::| wanted to sing cos I always liked singing. I was always singing at the |::
::| top of my voice along to all my records that were blasting really |::
::| really loud. None of the neighbours complained, in fact they used to |::
::| borrow all my records cos I had the best record collection in the |::
::| street. My dad started taking me out to buy records when I was twelve |::
::| years old. He was so much into music he was glad he had a daughter he |::
::| could take out and buy music for. My first seven inch was Monster Mash! |::
::| I love it! |::
::| |::
::| You'd gigged as a four-piece, but with the other two leaving did it put |::
::| gigs out of the way? |::
::| |::
::| We started using backing tapes. |::
::| |::
::| Did you start doing that straight away or was that after the records |::
::| had come out? |::
::| |::
::| It was before the records came out, we had a reel to reel with basic |::
::| bass and drums on it. My husband would take care of the reel to reel, |::
::| he was quite technical, and Jill's boyfriend's a photographer so he's |::
::| do slides and stuff like that. So, the first tour we did with Orange |::
::| Juice and we used a reel to reel. |::
::| |::
::| Later on we started getting people in, when we were doing bigger gigs. |::
::| After the records we'd get musicians in to play, which was a nightmare, |::
::| I used to hate having the whole audition thing. But we found musicians |::
::| who we went on tour with and it worked out quite well. And some of the |::
::| later sessions we did are with those musicians. It was good. We worked |::
::| with the Madness rhythm section. |::
::| |::
::| That single, Trees And Flowers, has got incredible personnel on it; |::
::| you've got the rhythm section of Madness, you've got Roddy Frame on |::
::| guitar, you've got Balfe and Drummond producing. It's laden with major |::
::| figures from the time, this little first indie single. |::
::| |::
::| I know! It was good actually. It was lucky, we just happened to be in a |::
::| scene that was just buzzing with life, so much talent. |::
::| |::
::| How does it happen to a new two piece with no releases that you can |::
::| pull in people like that? |::
::| |::
::| We sat down and thought 'we really want to concentrate on the band now, |::
::| and practise a lot and do gigs'. And we sat down with the other two |::
::| girls and said 'would you be willing to give up your job if we get |::
::| really busy?' Jill was at art school at the time, and she was willing |::
::| to give that up, but the other two girls weren't willing to give up |::
::| their jobs. |::
::| |::
::| What were you doing at the time? |::
::| |::
::| Me? I was not doing anything except being in Strawberry Switchblade and |::
::| The Poems and listening to bands and being a mother and having fun and |::
::| going out a lot [laughs]. I wasn't working, work already was music, I |::
::| was writing, spending a lot of time doing that. |::
::| |::
::| So they decided they didn't want to commit themselves to the band, so |::
::| we thought there's not much point in continuing [with the other two] |::
::| cos we now have to continue on our own if we're going to take it a bit |::
::| more seriously. And within weeks we had got a call cos Orange Juice had |::
::| mentioned 'look out for Strawberry Switchblade'. And we did a John Peel |::
::| roadshow as well. He used to do roadshows and bands would play. It was |::
::| just BBC roadshows that DJs would do and there'd be a disco he'd |::
::| compere or whatever. And he did one in Edinburgh and it was Strawberry |::
::| Switchblade and Sophisticated Boom Boom, which were another Glasgow all |::
::| female band at the time. So we did that and we did the John Peel |::
::| session and then we did the Kid Jensen session. We recorded the Peel |::
::| one first but Jensen went out first. |::
::| |::
::| [BBC archives confirm the Peel session was recorded 5 Oct 82, Jensen 7 |::
::| Oct 82] |::
::| |::
::| Did you submit demos or anything? |::
::| |::
::| No, we didn't! No, he just phoned my house - not even getting the |::
::| producer of the show to phone - and said 'Hi, this is John Peel, do you |::
::| want to do a session?' I said 'do you want us to send a tape?' and he |::
::| said, 'no, that's OK'. Then David Jensen did it as well just cos John |::
::| Peel had, they were both trying to be the first one to get us out. |::
::| |::
::| It was mad, everything just happened like that, we weren't asking for |::
::| anything, we weren't pushing. I was going to people and pushing for |::
::| gigs and stuff like that but not for John Peel to phone up and say 'do |::
::| you want to do a session next week? Can you come down?' YES! It was |::
::| bizarre. |::
::| |::
::| Then David Balfe and Bill Drummond heard the sessions, and they came up |::
::| to Glasgow to meet us and propose that they two would be a management |::
::| team for us. It ended up that Balfey was our manager solely cos Bill |::
::| Drummond had to concentrate on running the Bunnymen and they didn't |::
::| want him to spread himself out too much. |::
::| |::
::| Then we had a lot of record companies start to get interested, a lot of |::
::| the independents like Cherry Red and Rough Trade, and then some majors |::
::| got interested. I think we went with WEA because, well, One: the |::
::| advance [laughs] Two: the fact that they had a little subsidiary label |::
::| that was quite cool to be on, it wasn't quite selling out to a major. |::
::| |::
::| Was Korova just Bill Drummond's imprint on WEA? There was yourselves |::
::| and the Bunnymen, I don't remember ever seeing anybody else. |::
::| |::
::| I really don't remember. There probably was. I'm sure there was in |::
::| fact, cos I remember people coming into Bill's office and stuff, but I |::
::| just cant remember who they were now! The first single came out on |::
::| Ninety Two Happy Customers. |::
::| |::
::| Was there anything else ever on that label? |::
::| |::
::| Well, that label was Will Sergeant's from the Bunnymen, I think he |::
::| might've done something on it. [There was only one other release on the |::
::| label, Sergeant's solo album Themes For Grind, released March 1982]. |::
::| But basically he wanted to put our first single out as an independent |::
::| before we went on to a semi-major. He liked Strawberry Switchblade so |::
::| he wanted to put the record out, and we thought 'yeah, cool!'. We liked |::
::| the Bunnymen, so it was mutual. We were lucky in that sense that we |::
::| didn't get just thrown out into the commercial soup of pop straight |::
::| away. There was a bit of dread, because of the people that we knew and |::
::| that we were involved with at the beginning like Bill Drummond. It was |::
::| good to put the first single out as an independent before we went to a |::
::| major. |::
::| |::
::| Do you think it would've been different if you'd stayed on a truly |::
::| independent label? |::
::| |::
::| It wouldn't have gone quite so quickly, it wouldn't have been as rapid |::
::| as it was. We may possibly have lasted longer, not split up quite so |::
::| soon. |::
::| |::
::| I imagine that would be the case anyway, because it [splitting up] was |::
::| a lot to do with the pressures of the record company and them deciding |::
::| who was going to do the next video when we were quite happy with who's |::
::| doing the videos right now thankyou very much - it was decisions like |::
::| that which would really really piss me off. It would be trade offs, 'OK |::
::| you can do this if you agree to try this', and then they started trying |::
::| to get us to change our image. We came as a package, we were already |::
::| everything that we were when we came to the record company, why are you |::
::| trying to change us into something from Dallas? We don't want to look |::
::| like The Bangles, we want to look like Strawberry Switchblade; that is |::
::| who we are. |::
::| |::
::| The Bangles when they started out were actually a lot like you, a good |::
::| band in part of a really good independent underground pop scene, |::
::| writing their own songs and everything, and then they got a makeover |::
::| from CBS and became MTV corporate froth. |::
::| |::
::| Exactly. And I was just totally opposed to that and didn't want to calm |::
::| down the make-up. |::
::| |::
::| Was it that direct, and that small details? |::
::| |::
::| Well, they were saying 'you should get into leather' and stuff like |::
::| that, but I was wearing PVC anyway. But it was 'settle down a wee bit' |::
::| so we could reach a wider audience. Cos, although we were doing pretty |::
::| well and we were quite happy doing what we were doing, we weren't quite |::
::| straight enough for a lot of people who were watching it. People would |::
::| watch it cos it was interesting, it looked kind of cartoony and fun. |::
::| |::
::| Who was it that was into you? |::
::| |::
::| Our audience was already really really wide. There were kids at gigs |::
::| and there were old grandfathers at gigs, it was completely across the |::
::| board. It wasn't just specific people, Cure-type fans and people from |::
::| that scene. We had loads of kids come - like, little kids with their |::
::| parents - and I had a man come up to us to sign these photographs and |::
::| he was a grandfather. A lot of weirdos as well! I used to get loads of |::
::| weirdo letters. |::
::| |::
::| In an old interview for ZigZag there a reference to getting loads of |::
::| weird letters, and you getting ninety percent of them. |::
::| |::
::| I'd get the weird ones and she'd get the sensitive ones! [laughs] |::
::| |::
::| Why was that do you think? |::
::| |::
::| I have no idea! |::
::| |::
::| How weird is 'weird'? Anything stick in your memory? |::
::| |::
::| There was one that was quite extreme, one guy blaming me for all the |::
::| Troubles in Northern Ireland, which was pretty weird coming from a fan, |::
::| from someone who actually liked the band. It's very very hard to follow |::
::| the letter, he's jumping all over the place, I think he was |::
::| schizophrenic. I had quite a few schizos I got letters from, like I was |::
::| reading a letter written by three or four people, it would jumble up. I |::
::| used to get weirdos, or else people saying 'send me your details I want |::
::| to make you a leather dress', something like that. I'd send them |::
::| measurements for a three piece suite, see if I could get that out of |::
::| them! |::
::| |::
::| We had a fan club at the time, and the guy who was running the fan club |::
::| was taking all the weirder obscene or cheeky or whatever mail out so |::
::| the girls wouldn't have to look at it. I heard him talking to Balfe |::
::| about it, my ears perked up and I went 'those are the ones I want to |::
::| see!' and David was going 'oh no no no'. 'I want to see every single |::
::| one of the weird letters', but we didn't actually get a lot, I think he |::
::| binned them. Then he started not getting to them, because I wanted to |::
::| know - the weird ones can be a lot more interesting! |::
::| |::
::| It gives you a clue as to who's coming the gigs and what to watch out |::
::| for. |::
::| |::
::| Exactly. Which was kind of useful cos I got a stalker, I don't know if |::
::| Jill told you about him. When we lived in Muswell Hill I was getting |::
::| these letters from this guy saying he was suicidal and blah blah, and |::
::| he really loved Strawberry Switchblade and he was going to kill himself |::
::| cos he was so depressed. And stupidly I wrote back to him, saying 'you |::
::| don't kill yourself over a pop band, that's really silly'. Then he sent |::
::| me another letter saying he'd come from Wales and moved to Muswell Hill |::
::| cos in an interview we'd said we lived in Muswell Hill. He moved into a |::
::| street called ROSEbery Avenue and he said he'd been following me around |::
::| for a year. I was like 'Shit! SHIT!' I was sitting on the bus going |::
::| 'could be him, could be him'. I was always thinking, 'god, I don't know |::
::| who this person is' and I went out a lot at night time and I'd be |::
::| getting off the bus thinking 'who's the weirdo?'. |::
::| |::
::| Then one day I was just pushing my bike up Muswell Hill and I had my |::
::| daughter with me who was only five, Keri, and then I heard these |::
::| footsteps behind me getting closer and closer until they were really |::
::| uncomfortably close but had no intention of overtaking me. I thought |::
::| 'what's going on? Am I going to turn round here?'. And I could hear a |::
::| walkman tsss-tsss-tssss and I recognised the song; it was Since |::
::| Yesterday. I just thought 'oh fuck', I was a wee bit scared to turn |::
::| round cos I didn't know what I was going to see - it might be some big |::
::| guy, it might just be some weasel. I turned round and it happened to be |::
::| some weasel! Not very threatening. Of course he could have been |::
::| threatening but I'd done martial arts and stuff so I wasn't really |::
::| scared of him, I wasn't intimidated by him. He tapped my shoulder in |::
::| slow motion - it wasn't just my imagination, it was really slow - tap. |::
::| Tap. Tap. Then he said 'you know who I am don't you?' I went, 'yeah, I |::
::| think I do. Kelvin?'. Then he was just going like that [looks slowly up |::
::| and down], we went all the way up the hill with him looking me up and |::
::| down. I was like 'get this guy off the street!' It was really freaky, |::
::| and then I said 'don't you ever follow me when I'm taking my daughter |::
::| to school,' I really told him off. That guy was a real fruitcake. |::
::| |::
::| I once stepped out of a cab by accident in Muswell Hill and he jumped |::
::| out in front of the car with me - not to push me out of the way of the |::
::| car. I said to him, 'Kelvin, what the hell did you do that for?' and he |::
::| said 'if you were going to die I wanted to die with you'. Why didn't |::
::| you just save me? He was weird, he was really weird. |::
::| |::
::| I had friends, this band called the Copyheads who came from Glasgow and |::
::| wanted to stay over somewhere, so they stayed at my flat. And he was |::
::| outside storming up and down, 'who are those guys in your house?' I |::
::| said 'they're just friends from Glasgow, and it's none of your business |::
::| anyway'. He came in and tried to put his arms round me and kiss me, I |::
::| pushed him out of the door. When I started going out with my next |::
::| husband he'd shifted houses to one that looked onto the roundabout so |::
::| he could see whenever I was out so he could run downstairs and follow |::
::| me around. He threatened to kill Robert, he said his stepdad had a |::
::| shotgun. He was really furious that Robert was younger than him. |::
::| |::
::| I was doing my driving lessons and he bought a car exactly the same a |::
::| my car! Mine was a silvery green BMW and he got one that was a silvery |::
::| blue, so it was slightly different but it was the exact same year and |::
::| everything. I was doing my driving lessons, and if there's something |::
::| gonna put you off it's this fruitcake following you! Honestly, it was a |::
::| nightmare. |::
::| |::
::| How long did this go on for? |::
::| |::
::| Ages. Till I left Muswell Hill. I was there six years and it happened |::
::| pretty quickly after I moved there, so a very very long time. He went |::
::| to my doctor's so he'd have the same doctor as me. She called me in one |::
::| day and said, 'I shouldn't really say this and I don't think there's a |::
::| real problem, I was wondering if you were aware of this person?'. She'd |::
::| referred him to the psychiatric hospital up the road for group therapy. |::
::| And then he'd come to my door with this big manual about sexual |::
::| deviants and say 'look at page number whatever, that's you' and then |::
::| just disappear. And then one of the guys from his group therapy knocked |::
::| on my door one day and said 'can I borrow your walkman?'. I didn't even |::
::| know this person so I said you can't borrow my walkman. He said, 'can I |::
::| have a hug then, cos my therapist said hug therapy's really good for |::
::| me'. I just said piss off. Instead of it getting better it got worse, |::
::| he would get people from group therapy sat in the cafΘ we used to go |::
::| to, just looking over at us. Instead of one stalker there's a whole |::
::| gaggle! |::
::| |::
::| He was just a wee bit over the top. He'd phone me up and say he'd taken |::
::| an overdose, I'd tell him to phone the Samaritans. My number was |::
::| ex-directory, I don't know how he got it. He could've got my address |::
::| from following me - wandering around Muswell Hill we're not that |::
::| difficult to spot. A couple of people came to the door actually. I'd |::
::| open the curtains in the morning and there'd be four goths sat there, |::
::| I'd close them again! It was a bit mad really. |::
::| |::
::| Kelvin would phone and say 'leave Drew and I'll look after you and |::
::| Keri'. Drew would answer and tell him to go away, I wouldn't let him do |::
::| anything other than that - he wanted to give him a smack. I'd be stood |::
::| talking to someone and they'd ask what I'd been doing and Kelvin would |::
::| be stood right behind me and say 'you went to the chinese for a |::
::| takeaway'. |::
::| |::
::| You were in a really weird position cos you'd got all the mainstream |::
::| publicity which attracts random mad people, but you've also got the |::
::| outsiderness that gets people who are really obsessional. The level you |::
::| were pitched at was always going to get the worst of both worlds. |::
::| |::
::| I know, exactly. I had this sixteen year old boy turn up at the door |::
::| once with his auntie. He asked the shopkeepers where I lived - thankyou |::
::| very much for telling him - he was from Sheffield I think, but his aunt |::
::| lived in London. He turned up with a whole bunch of records to be |::
::| signed and then one day he came back with some more and I let him come |::
::| into the house. And then he had an epileptic fit! I went 'SHIT!' and |::
::| sat on him, just to hold him down so he didn't hurt himself. Every time |::
::| I said 'you have to go now, your aunt's probably waiting for you' he'd |::
::| have another fit. I called my doctor round. He was there for three |::
::| days, he would not go away. Eventually the doctor said he might be |::
::| faking it. I phoned his mum and said 'I've got your son here and he |::
::| keeps having fits'. I drove him to the bus stop, put him on a bus and |::
::| he was in tears and everything. I said 'go home, your mother's waiting |::
::| at the other end'. |::
::| |::
::| That is REALLY far out. Imagine how different your life would have to |::
::| have been for you to be like that. |::
::| |::
::| I KNOW! Then his mum kept phoning me up all the time! Saying if he |::
::| wasn't at home was he with me. Or, he's having fits again, will you |::
::| talk to him? Stuff like that. I said I don't think it will help, it's |::
::| just making it worse. His mum started sending me letters. I sent |::
::| letters back saying they had to respect my privacy and it's really not |::
::| my responsibility. |::
::| |::
::| Things like that happened which were not glamorous, they're just a real |::
::| pain and your life just comes to a stop sometimes because something |::
::| like that happens. You get freaks going to your doctor's, freaks |::
::| telling you this about yourself or that about yourself which is total |::
::| crap, things they've made up in their own head. |::
::| |::
::| This Kelvin hated blondes; if he was a trucker he'd probably pick up |::
::| blondes and murder them. His mum was a blonde and he really didn't like |::
::| her cos she'd separated from his dad, and he hated his stepdad and his |::
::| mum liked his stepdad more than she liked him, so he really didn't like |::
::| blondes. I just thought thank fuck I'm not a blonde. But then he |::
::| wouldn't have liked me then anyway, would he? He didn't go to gigs |::
::| either. That's the weird thing, he didn't go to any gigs, he was too |::
::| shy, he'd nobody to go with. |::
::| |::
::| Too shy to go to gigs but not too shy to harass you on your doorstep? |::
::| |::
::| That's the way his mind worked. He wouldn't go to gigs cos he'd nobody |::
::| to go with but he was quite happy to threaten you with a shotgun. He |::
::| got sacked from two jobs because of me. He used to fix video machines, |::
::| so he was always sticking Strawberry Switchblade videos in all day |::
::| long, so all the guys he worked with hated Strawberry Switchblade. One |::
::| of them said she's got legs that go up to wherever, Kelvin punched the |::
::| guy and got the sack. He also fixed jukeboxes, so there was always a |::
::| Strawberry Switchblade on his ones, which was to our advantage. He got |::
::| the sack from that for following me when he was supposed to be working. |::
::| |::
::| You're talking about this really easily and laughing about it. How easy |::
::| was it to deal with at the time? |::
::| |::
::| I was frightened till I met him, actually. Thinking someone's been |::
::| following you for a year, that was the frightening bit. But once I'd |::
::| actually met him it was just annoying. I wasn't that freaked out cos I |::
::| used to be quite confident in my own ability to defend myself. I was |::
::| used to weirdos coming up and sitting next to me on the late night bus |::
::| and heaving to deal with them. |::
::| |::
::| I didn't like him following me around when Keri was there and I was a |::
::| wee bit worried about that, that he knew where her school was. I always |::
::| had to go and pick her up even when she was older, make sure she was |::
::| escorted to and from school; I might not be frightened of him but he |::
::| knows where Keri goes to school and who knows what he's capable of, |::
::| really? |::
::| |::
::| The guy who said I was responsible for all the Troubles in Northern |::
::| Ireland, I was a wee bit more scared of that letter, I thought he might |::
::| be going to do something about it or people might believe him. I wasn't |::
::| that scared, I was annoyed more than scared cos it just kind of |::
::| interfered with things. There are a million and one Kelvin stories. He |::
::| was just SO weird. |::
::| |::
::| He did once come to a gig. This is a funny story actually. I was |::
::| working with Lawrence from Felt who was a really good friend of mine, |::
::| and he had a stalker, his female stalker from New Zealand. She hung |::
::| around him all the time like Kelvin followed me. We were at Creation |::
::| Records one day, Lawrence and I, and we came outside and the two of |::
::| them were there, so we introduced them to each other and sent them off |::
::| in a cab together! |::
::| |::
::| Any report back of how it went? |::
::| |::
::| All they did was talk about us all the time so it didn't work! Lawrence |::
::| and I thought it'd be an ideal set-up! She came up to me and said I'd |::
::| been saying things to try and put her off Lawrence. 'Look, Lawrence is |::
::| my friend, who am I going to listen to, you or Lawrence? Just go away. |::
::| What Lawrence does is his choice, don't bother me about it'. |::
::| |::
::| She turned up at my door once as well actually. She came into the house |::
::| and had this big sobbing session about Lawrence and if I was in love |::
::| with him and all this sort of stuff. She was so scared that she was in |::
::| love with him and she wanted him and all that. Lawrence was on an |::
::| independent label, so it happens to all sorts! But our little scheme of |::
::| cooking those two up didn't really work. They did keep in touch, but |::
::| only to talk about us. Stalkers Anonymous! |::
::| |::
::| It seems strange you weren't on Postcard Records, given that you were |::
::| around all the Postcard bands. Did you plan anything with them? |::
::| |::
::| We may have done had things not happened quickly, and we gone the other |::
::| way. We did talk about stuff, but Postcard were really starting to wind |::
::| up by the time we were really starting to do things, because Alan was |::
::| losing interest. |::
::| |::
::| I suppose Aztec Camera and Orange Juice had both moved on by then. |::
::| |::
::| Yeah, and also Paul Quinn, he was concentrating on him a bit, trying to |::
::| make something of him. He had a nice voice, nice guy and everything and |::
::| his version of Pale Blue Eyes was gorgeous, but I don't really know |::
::| what happened after that. Then we moved to London and Postcard was |::
::| still in Glasgow. Probably by the time we moved to London they weren't |::
::| really doing anything any more anyway. Alan had spent all his money and |::
::| done all the stuff he was going to do. I don't know. I really can't |::
::| remember what happened there. That WAS the crowd that we hung about |::
::| with, but it escapes me why we didn't do something with Postcard. Even |::
::| The Poems were going to do something with Postcard. And we just decided |::
::| to it ourselves. |::
::| |::
::| It is an odd thing, cos the links were maintained with Roddy Frame |::
::| playing on Trees & Flowers. |::
::| |::
::| Exactly, yeah. And Orange Juice promoting us to everybody, saying look |::
::| out for Strawberry Switchblade. But I think because we really quite |::
::| quickly started getting interest from other places, and then we went on |::
::| tour with Orange Juice which was really good fun and we started playing |::
::| gigs outside Glasgow and Edinburgh and getting a lot more exposure and |::
::| more interest from outside. Cherry Red and lots of labels like that |::
::| were interested, and Rough Trade as soon as they heard the sessions |::
::| they were interested in us. |::
::| |::
::| I think they knew us all too well at Postcard, they knew we only had |::
::| eight songs, nobody else did! [laughs] So at the time we weren't really |::
::| ready to be releasing things. Everything kind of snowballed and just |::
::| went the other way. We were quite interested in Cherry Red and then we |::
::| got talked out of that one for Warner Brothers. |::
::| |::
::| It was a great time for Rough Trade, they'd signed your friends The |::
::| Pastels and Aztec Camera. |::
::| |::
::| Felt were on Cherry Red at the time, I think. Cherry Red had done that |::
::| compilation Pillows And Prayers, it's got a lot of really good stuff on |::
::| it. It WAS a good time. I really liked a lot of stuff on Cherry Red. I |::
::| always liked a lot of stuff on Rough Trade but Cherry Red seemed to be |::
::| slightly... there was a much wider range of things on Rough Trade, |::
::| Cherry Red just seemed a wee bit more exciting, and I liked the name, |::
::| very me - any colour you like as long as it's red! |::
::| |::
::| When you signed to Korova/WEA, how did that change expectations of what |::
::| was going to happen next? |::
::| |::
::| The press were really bizarre actually. We did do quite a few |::
::| interviews before we actually signed. We did a really early THE FACE |::
::| right at the beginning and we'd done the NME, we'd done a few things. |::
::| We did start to get the more cynical side of the interviewers coming |::
::| out, trying to prod more things out of you, wanting to go into detail |::
::| about the lyrics. I was like, 'you'll get what you're given and that's |::
::| all. You'll get as much as we want to say and if we don't want to say |::
::| anything else about it then that's it. The lyrics speak for |::
::| themselves'. I don't really feel like I want to explain through all the |::
::| lyrics in the songs. |::
::| |::
::| The press were up and down, really. It was good, we actually got loads |::
::| and loads of exposure in loads of good magazines that were hip at the |::
::| time. And then when we did Top Of The Pops it was Smash Hits and those |::
::| kind of magazines. We did women's magazines and everything, Women's Own |::
::| and stuff like that, covering lots of angles. |::
::| |::
::| Most of the stuff I've seen from after Since Yesterday is either |::
::| trivial stuff about clothes, or it's being patronising. |::
::| |::
::| We got quite a lot of that from the serious press, titles like |::
::| 'Strawberry Tarts' in Sounds. Not that the interview was bad, but |::
::| they'd just put stupid things like that which was a bit irritating. But |::
::| when you're doing all those teen magazines like Smash Hits that ask you |::
::| the most mundane questions then, then it was much much better doing an |::
::| interview for Rolling Stone or Sounds or something like that, something |::
::| not quite so 'what's your favourite colour? Where do you buy your |::
::| ribbons?', stupid things like that. |::
::| |::
::| We'd get so bored with interviews like that that I started lying every |::
::| time we did an interview. We did some women's magazine, Women's Own or |::
::| something like that, and they said 'what do you do when you entertain |::
::| guests?' I said 'usually we have something healthy to eat, we'll get |::
::| some chips from the chip shop and some mineral water cos we're really |::
::| into healthy living. And then we'll mudwrestle'. They said 'how do you |::
::| do that at home', I said you just get a big plastic pool, fill it with |::
::| mud and have mudwrestling parties. They were 'REALLY?' and we're |::
::| 'YEAH!' 'and then what do you do?' 'Well, we shower off and have a |::
::| glass of wine'. 'Do you shower off together?' I just said, 'well, some |::
::| of us shower together, some don't, whatever's easiest'. |::
::| |::
::| Did they print this stuff? |::
::| |::
::| Yeah! They printed it, they PRINTED it! In another one I said I was so |::
::| exhausted I had to be carried out on a stretcher. My mum phoned me up |::
::| cos they printed that. I used to just think, it's time to have a laugh |::
::| cos this is getting SO boring. People can be so gullible - I would |::
::| never have believed that in a hundred years - but they printed it! I |::
::| thought they might leave out some of it cos it's a bit risquΘ for |::
::| Woman's Own. |::
::| |::
::| Was there any opportunity to get taken seriously, if the proper music |::
::| press is being patronising cos you're not blokes and the rest is Smash |::
::| Hits and Beeb? |::
::| |::
::| We did some interviews that were intelligent reading - I can't remember |::
::| what the magazines were - where there were some feminist themes coming |::
::| at it from the angle of women in music rather than girls in short |::
::| skirts. |::
::| |::
::| It's an interesting angle to look at Strawberry Switchblade cos while |::
::| it's two intelligent articulate women writing their own songs, you're |::
::| also all ribbons and frills, and feminist politics at the time still |::
::| had a big streak of not dressing up cos its got overtones of doing it |::
::| just to please men, being a bit dungarees and crewcuts. |::
::| |::
::| Well exactly. I remember we did a gig with The Slits in Glasgow. They |::
::| were out doing their soundcheck and I was in the dressing room putting |::
::| my make-up on and their manager comes up to me and says, 'what are you |::
::| doing putting that make-up on? Who are you putting it on for? Are you |::
::| putting it on for men or are you putting it on for yourself? Have you |::
::| asked yourself these questions?' I said to her, 'being a feminist is |::
::| not being a man. I celebrate the feminine side of my personality, and |::
::| who are you to tell me what to do? And anyway one of your band is |::
::| wearing make-up! Just go away. I'm not going to dress down for men, I |::
::| won't let what men do rule my life'. |::
::| |::
::| To begin with, in The Poems when I was an anarchist I went through a |::
::| wee phase where I thought I shouldn't wear make-up and stuff. Then I |::
::| just thought 'NO'; that's not me being who I want to be. I'm doing this |::
::| because I like being extravagant and I like to paint my face like a |::
::| picture. I'd do lots of colours or draw flowers on my face and things |::
::| like that. I just like it, it's an art form. Dressing up and doing this |::
::| whole thing, it's great fun. Kids love dressing up and I just never |::
::| grew out of it! |::
::| |::
::| If you're a feminist it doesn't mean that you have to be like a man, it |::
::| means the exact opposite. People just got it wrong and thought you have |::
::| to be as macho as possible or whatever. I was brought up with lots of |::
::| brothers, I was a real tomboy when I was a kid; anything a guy could do |::
::| I could do anyway, and I used to prove that throughout my growing-up |::
::| years. I was always a feminist. If I want to wear make up and false |::
::| eyelashes and whatever, so be it, nobody will tell me what to do. |::
::| |::
::| I think a lot of feminists got it wrong, and because they got it wrong |::
::| they probably lost a wee bit of the fun out of their lives cos they |::
::| were taking it too seriously. |::
::| |::
::| The 80s was a time when individualism was coming through, and feminism |::
::| was probably helped by that because feminism demands that people be |::
::| judged as individuals rather than eulogised or dismissed on grounds of |::
::| their sex. |::
::| |::
::| We actually had quite a feminist following as well, and quite a |::
::| sizeable lesbian following as well. We did a club in Edinburgh, a gay |::
::| club, and there were all these women coming backstage trying to chat us |::
::| up, 'are you two girlfriends? Are you seeing anybody?'. We did have a |::
::| lot of a gay following male and female. A lot of gay men liked |::
::| Strawberry Switchblade, cos we're not conventional women, we are |::
::| flamboyant. The amount of gay guys who've said to me 'I'd turn for |::
::| you!' |::
::| |::
::| At this summer's gay Pride in London, the headmaster of Jill's |::
::| daughter's school borrowed some of Jill's old polka dot outfits and |::
::| went with his boyfriend as Strawberry Switchblade. Imagine your |::
::| headmaster and his boyfriend dressing up as your mum! |::
::| |::
::| Excellent! |::
::| |::
::| At least sometimes when people know who you are it needn't be a |::
::| stalker. |::
::| |::
::| When I came out here [rural Oxfordshire] I came out here to get away |::
::| from the Kelvins. I thought London's totally doing my head in, it's too |::
::| chaotic, it's driving me insane. Which it actually was, literally. I |::
::| moved out to the country and dropped out a lot, I didn't really keep in |::
::| contact with a lot of people, like a hermit in the woods for a while. I |::
::| just needed the tranquillity. The woods were my Valium, basically. |::
::| |::
::| When was that? |::
::| |::
::| I've been here for nine years. I lived in Canada for one and a half, |::
::| and then came straight here, after going to Scotland to have a baby cos |::
::| I wanted it to be Scottish. It sounds terrible doesn't it? I wanted to |::
::| do that with my last daughter as well but nobody would let me, it |::
::| would've been hitch-hiking up the road at nine months pregnant! So she |::
::| was born in Oxford. I dunno, I just like it out here, I like the peace, |::
::| I like the quiet. |::
::| |::
::| We go to the pub one night, a little country pub. I walked in and asked |::
::| for a Red Witch and they just looked at me. They don't even sell |::
::| mineral water, never mind cocktails or whatever. I sat down and this |::
::| guy said, 'I know you'. I thought I came out here to get away from |::
::| everybody that knows me. He said 'I worked with you in the studio |::
::| once', and he was an engineer on a Strawberry Switchblade session! His |::
::| name's Pete Brown, he lives locally. His dad's Joe Brown and his |::
::| sister's Sam Brown. |::
::| |::
::| And then a girl moved a couple of cottages down from me with her |::
::| boyfriend who was a photographer. She said to him one day, 'I know that |::
::| girl' and he asked me. I said 'I know her as well, is she a make-up |::
::| artist?' She did Strawberry Switchblade's make-up and she moved here! |::
::| For two years she was a neighbour. I thought god, it's SUCH a small |::
::| world, it's bizarre. You can't run away from yourself! |::
::| |::
::| How did you write the songs? You were already writing with The Poems. |::
::| |::
::| It was mostly vocal stuff I was writing with The Poems, I wasn't really |::
::| playing any instruments except the drums. I taught myself to play |::
::| twelve-string guitar. Basically either Jill would come up with a guitar |::
::| line and I would put a vocal melody on it and the words, or I'd come up |::
::| with both and occasionally she'd come up with both. The majority of the |::
::| time it was... well, it's difficult because if you actually looked at |::
::| the whole thing, the whole album, I probably tended to write most of it |::
::| as a whole, but Jill wrote quite a lot of the music. She'd write one |::
::| song, I'd write another song, but when I did it I tended to write the |::
::| vocal melody and the lyrics as well, with a couple of exceptions. We |::
::| used to write like that and then come together with an idea. |::
::| |::
::| Working with Jill was great, it was really really good because our |::
::| personalities together were perfect for writing songs. She'd do |::
::| something that would really excite me and I'd do something that would |::
::| really excite her. The enthusiasm that came off each other was |::
::| completely electric, it was SO exciting and SO much fun. And all we |::
::| ever did was laugh. We were just really happy and we worked together |::
::| really really well. I haven't ever worked with anybody like that since |::
::| then. |::
::| |::
::| I kind of miss that, I miss our working relationship. It was really |::
::| good for most of the time, it's just that there became stresses towards |::
::| the end. It was actually really good fun when we were sitting down and |::
::| one of us would come up with an idea. We were good for each other, I |::
::| think. We were good for each other's confidence - we were learning |::
::| guitar AS we wrote the songs, 'I've learnt this new chord' 'Oh that's |::
::| really nice, let's see if we can fit it in with the other ones we |::
::| know'. It was like everything drew out of the same pot. We worked well |::
::| together, we worked really well together. |::
::| |::
::| Although it was really collaborative, you were writing the lyrics on |::
::| your own. Did you ever do much explaining of what they were about? In a |::
::| format like the three minute song there's bound to be so much left |::
::| unsaid, but yours tend to be really uncontextualised. It feels like |::
::| being dropped into the middle of a situation, like a snapshot of a |::
::| relationship where although there's clearly history and consequences, |::
::| the lyrics have just picked a moment and described the feeling and |::
::| feelings of that moment. Did you ever explain to Jill where the lyrics |::
::| had come from and what they were describing? |::
::| |::
::| A lot of the lyrics were just straight out of my life, basically. It |::
::| was a memory and I'd just put it into words like a poem. Little parts |::
::| of my life that were stuck in my head, I'd write songs about them. |::
::| Things like Little River, the reason I wrote that song is because it |::
::| was one of my favourite story books in school when I was a little girl. |::
::| Things like Go Away, my cousin had taken me out into the countryside |::
::| and he used to play really nasty tricks on me. He'd take me for great |::
::| big long walks - cos he lived in the country and I'd go and visit them |::
::| - and then he'd dump me somewhere. He'd tell me to sit on this wishing |::
::| stone, close my eyes and count to ten and make a wish. I'd close my |::
::| eyes, count to ten, make a wish and open my eyes and he'd be nowhere to |::
::| be seen, and I would have no idea where I was. That stuck in my head, |::
::| and that was what Go Away was about, basically. |::
::| |::
::| 10 James Orr Street obviously, it was really my favourite place that |::
::| I've ever lived and I really didn't want to leave it. But they were |::
::| knocking the buildings down to extend the hospital and we HAD to go. I |::
::| was really heartbroken when I left that house cos my first love lived |::
::| there as well, this little ten year old boy who used to run away from |::
::| me all the time. I was giving him sweets and he was going GO AWAY. I |::
::| was ten and he was nine. I just loved that place. So 10 James Orr |::
::| Street was about having to leave somewhere you just really don't want |::
::| to. |::
::| |::
::| The place I moved to afterwards turned out to be an absolute nightmare, |::
::| an awful place. My little brother died within six months of us moving |::
::| to that place. I just hated the place that we'd moved to, so 10 James |::
::| Orr Street just seemed like the perfect place in the world looking back |::
::| on it. The place we moved to afterward, I was there till I was sixteen. |::
::| It was horrible because in was in sort of a gangland part of Glasgow, |::
::| so it was really violent. When I moved there I was ten years old, or |::
::| just turned eleven I think, and I was totally, like, the world is a |::
::| wonderful place. I used to find all these places that I'd call |::
::| fairyland, I was just an innocent little kid who thought everybody |::
::| could be saved if they only knew. Even bad people, if you talked to |::
::| them and stuff they'd be fine, if they just knew what you knew they'd |::
::| be fine. Then my little brother died, that really changed my |::
::| perspective on life. |::
::| |::
::| And living in that area, where I could see people running down the |::
::| street with an axe in their back. I found people dead; I found a man |::
::| who'd been stabbed with a sword when I was about fourteen. It was a |::
::| forty-two year old man, it was in the paper next day that he had a |::
::| family. The guys who stabbed him with the big sword were just up the |::
::| hill and they saw me and my friend, and because we were witnesses they |::
::| chased us. We were only about from here to that door over there from |::
::| her house but we were too scared to run in there cos they'd know where |::
::| she lived, so we just ran and ran. We ran through people's gardens, we |::
::| eventually had to stop running cos we were knackered. We were hiding |::
::| under a hedge and these guys, we could hear them walking about looking |::
::| for us and they were patting the hedge with the sword. To come out of |::
::| that a sane person is impossible. |::
::| |::
::| And that was just one story, there were loads of them. My dad got hit |::
::| over the head with an axe twice because he's deaf in one ear and |::
::| somebody had asked him a question, they'd asked him if was Paddy |::
::| McCormick and my dad thought they'd asked 'do you KNOW Paddy |::
::| McCormick?'. The man who was meant to be hit, his wife carried my dad |::
::| up the stairs, he was unconscious. I remember she had a camelhair coat |::
::| on and it was just covered in blood. My dad went off to the hospital, |::
::| and the guy that did it came to the door an hour later or something. I |::
::| have no idea who let him into the house, there was loads of neighbours |::
::| in the house cos my mum was panicking and stuff like that, cos we |::
::| didn't know what would happen to my dad with two great big gashes |::
::| across the top of his skull, he was in hospital and we hadn't heard |::
::| anything yet. And this guy came to the door to apologise, to say |::
::| 'you're OK, it's not going to go any further, I apologise, just a case |::
::| of mistaken identity'. He thought that was it, that's all he had to do. |::
::| |::
::| I flew at the guy, I was screaming at him, I thought 'if I can kill |::
::| this guy right now I'll kill this guy right now'. I was trying to punch |::
::| him and the neighbour was pulling me off. I was only a kid and this guy |::
::| was early twenties, there's quite a big difference. I just could not |::
::| see why this guy was in the house apologising, he should be dying under |::
::| my hand. And then I realised when he'd gone that basically my mum had |::
::| to accept his apology, because if she hadn't and she had pressed |::
::| charges, then he was one of the top guys in the gang, and they'd have |::
::| put petrol bombs through the window or something like that. She was |::
::| protecting her kids and I didn't realise that, I just thought an eye |::
::| for an eye. I didn't even think that, it was just an emotional thing, I |::
::| was distraught and I just wanted to kill that guy. |::
::| |::
::| I realised afterwards that there was all that sort of stuff goes on, if |::
::| you see things you turn a blind eye and all that, and I couldn't stand |::
::| that attitude. I really really disliked that attitude. If you turn a |::
::| blind eye then they will always get away with it, you just HAVE to |::
::| stand up to them. It was really difficult cos my mum and dad were, |::
::| like, 'don't cause any trouble,' and I was 'you can't let them bully |::
::| you like that,' it was awful. |::
::| |::
::| This one guy stabbed his girlfriend through the stomach when she was |::
::| pregnant, in the street. They were about seventeen-ish. A lot of things |::
::| like that happened, it was not uncommon. I saw a little boy who was |::
::| just jumping on the side doors of a bus for a ride to the next bus stop |::
::| and he fell off and went under the back wheel of the bus, and his head |::
::| and his teeth flew all over the road. I saw some really gruesome |::
::| things, it's a wonder I'm not locked up somewhere. I did see some |::
::| really awful things cos it was quite a wild place and the children were |::
::| really wild. We lived in a tenement and there were six families and |::
::| only two of them had never been in trouble with the police; us and the |::
::| people directly below us. There were armed robbers on the bottom floor, |::
::| murderers, someone was in for manslaughter. |::
::| |::
::| In the other house there was a manslaughterer and a murderer; two guy |::
::| in prison. And one of the other brothers tried to kill me once. He got |::
::| me by the throat and he picked me up. It was such a stupid thing - my |::
::| three year old brother was fighting with his three year old brother |::
::| over a biscuit. His mother came up to the door to complain and my mum |::
::| and dad were out working and I had to look after my siblings cos I was |::
::| the oldest. I said, 'my mum and dad aren't in right now'. Obviously |::
::| that's why she came up, she knew they weren't in, she knew where they |::
::| worked. She was trying to push into the house, and I tried to close the |::
::| door and say 'come back when my mum and dad come back'. I pushed the |::
::| door and she stuck her foot in the door, I pushed the door on her foot |::
::| really hard. She pulled her foot out and started screaming at the top |::
::| of her voice and ran downstairs and her son came up who was twenty two |::
::| or something like that - early twenties - and he kicked the door in. I |::
::| told my friend who was with me to take all the kids into the living |::
::| room and put things up against the door. This guy was strangling me, he |::
::| lifted me up off the ground, my feet were about a foot off the ground, |::
::| I was just standing there being strangled until somebody came and |::
::| pulled him off me. And his sister shouted something about 'you're |::
::| pretty, I'll spoil that for you, I'm going to throw acid in your face,' |::
::| and they're the kind of people who WOULD do that. |::
::| |::
::| There was a boy who was about the same age as me, he was always trying |::
::| to trip me up and push me, and that's when I took up martial arts. When |::
::| I used to come round the corner with my martial arts bag that guy who |::
::| used to bully me all the time would cross the road. I'd only done a |::
::| couple of lessons, I hadn't done anything much yet, but because my mum |::
::| and dad know someone who was a black belt and a really good person who |::
::| worked with them, and also the guy who was teaching me was a world |::
::| champion. It was also at the time when Kung Fu was on TV and everybody |::
::| was into kung fu, so although I was only about four foot eleven at the |::
::| time they thought 'she could probably take out about twenty guys with |::
::| one swing'! I was 'don't try me out please!', I was only just learning |::
::| the right stance and stuff, but it really worked; nobody bullied me, |::
::| nobody tried to. |::
::| |::
::| My little brother got killed. Some guys said that they were going to |::
::| kill him, and I said, 'you touch him and I'll get you', cos that's what |::
::| big sisters do. I always wished I had a big brother so I wasn't the one |::
::| that had to do that. And we went off, my little brother was only six |::
::| and we decided to go home. He ran into these guys on the way home, two |::
::| of them held an arm each and the other one kicked into his stomach. |::
::| That was on the Thursday, he died on the Sunday of peritonitis; |::
::| ruptured appendix. |::
::| |::
::| The doctor had been called out lots of times but because of the kicking |::
::| he thought it was just internal bruising. So he was lying there for |::
::| days dying and I was actually sat with him as he died. I was laughing |::
::| my head off cos he was telling me these funny stories - he was lying on |::
::| the sofa and he was telling me there were these little men on the top |::
::| of the sofa, little men with funny hats on who were coming to take him |::
::| away. I was going 'what do they look like? What do they look like?' and |::
::| he was describing what they look like and they just sounded like |::
::| pixies. He said, 'they're coming to take me away'. I said 'where are |::
::| they taking you?' and then he just stopped talking and he was staring |::
::| at the ceiling. And I remember him making this funny noise when he just |::
::| stared at the ceiling and I was going 'Michael, Michael' and he |::
::| wouldn't talk, he was just staring at the ceiling. My other little boy |::
::| noticed the boy that had hit him so we ran out to get him. All we did |::
::| was get his ball off him and kick it over a fence and say, 'if anything |::
::| happens to my little brother you're going to be in trouble'. |::
::| |::
::| I went back and when I got to the bottom of the stairs I heard this |::
::| really loud shriek, this SCREAM. I thought that sounds like my mum, I |::
::| ran up the stairs and before I got to the last flight she was saying |::
::| 'don't come up don't come up', and of course that just said to me 'come |::
::| up'. So I looked in the house and there was a long corridor with the |::
::| living room at the end of it. My dad was just lifting his head away |::
::| trying to give my little brother the kiss of life. He didn't know I was |::
::| there, he turned round and shook his head to my mum. I just completely |::
::| freaked out, I leaped down all the stairs. A neighbour stopped me at |::
::| one point and slapped me to try and calm me down. I ran for eight miles |::
::| to my granny's and told her what happened, that he was really sick. I |::
::| didn't say he was dead cos I didn't want to believe that. I told her |::
::| about the hallucinations and she said the last time she knew someone |::
::| who did that, they died. I started screaming cos I didn't want her to |::
::| say that word. I was only eleven and I was so freaked out by it. Just |::
::| as we got back the ambulance was pulling away. It was the worst time of |::
::| my life. From eleven years old I got a wee bit more cynical with |::
::| people. |::
::| |::
::| Since we moved to that place I thought actually, some people are not |::
::| saveable, you can't change them. You see all these little kids who run |::
::| around and their mums and dads are alcoholics, you feel really sorry |::
::| for them and up until a point they're probably saveable. But beyond a |::
::| certain age when they become teenagers and late teenagers, you're not |::
::| going to change that person's mind, they're gonna thieve, they're gonna |::
::| mug you. I've been mugged a couple of times, I've been assaulted a |::
::| couple of times, not seriously. Somebody thought I was a boy once cos I |::
::| had really short hair and he came running over to beat me up, and when |::
::| he realised I was a girl he thought he'd just touch me up instead. They |::
::| were guys who went to the same school as me. Other guys who went to the |::
::| same school as me held me and my friend up in an elevator and told us |::
::| to take our knickers off. I said no, I looked at one of the guys who |::
::| was in my class and said, 'you know you're not going to do this don't |::
::| you? This is really stupid, I know exactly who you are'. They were |::
::| holding a knife up to us and my friend was so scared she took her |::
::| knickers off. I just bluntly refused. Eventually they just let us go |::
::| and didn't do anything. It was a horrible place, it was a really |::
::| horrible place to grow up. |::
::| |::
::| It was a horrible place for somebody who.... It was a horrible place |::
::| for ANYBODY, but I was somebody who was really optimistic and believed |::
::| in all the beautiful things in life, in trees and...trees and flowers, |::
::| haha. I just love nature and I love life, and then I saw that and |::
::| thought 'this is SO awful'. I really really believe that some people |::
::| are just scum. It's not a PC thing to say, but when you live with them |::
::| you don't care about that, you just think, 'that person is the complete |::
::| scum of the world and we'd be better without him,' cos there were a lot |::
::| of people like that. |::
::| |::
::| Also I turned away from religion at that age as well, cos when my |::
::| little brother died I thought that was a really cruel thing for God to |::
::| do. |::
::| |::
::| Had religion been a big thing for you up until then? |::
::| |::
::| Oh yeah, we were brought up Catholics and we went to chapel all the |::
::| time. Just before we were moving my cat ran away because we were moving |::
::| and it was scared. My mum sent me off to church on my own. I was really |::
::| really shy when I was a little kid and I was too scared to go on my own |::
::| cos I didn't know anybody. She gave me tuppence for the plate, and I |::
::| was all dressed in a little white dress cos you used to do that in |::
::| those days; Sunday best of little white dress, little white shoes and a |::
::| hat and a handbag with tuppence for the plate in it. I decided to buy |::
::| sweets with the tuppence and sat waiting for time to go home. My cat |::
::| ran past me with its hair sticking up and it was foaming at the mouth |::
::| and really rabid looking. I started running after it. It fell over and |::
::| got up and ran away again and I couldn't catch it. Then this boy picked |::
::| it up and said 'is this your cat?' and he was swinging it by the tail |::
::| and he dropped it into the dustbin and said 'it's dead'. I said it's |::
::| not dead cos it was making noise. He set the bin on fire and I could |::
::| hear my cat screaming. I was totally one hundred percent convinced that |::
::| was God punishing me for not going to chapel. I really though it was my |::
::| fault that that happened. |::
::| |::
::| Then when the thing happened with my little brother I thought no. How |::
::| can you possibly love somebody you're terrified of? How can you force |::
::| children - out of fear - to believe in something? I just thought |::
::| there's no way. I don't believe in God, I'm not going to love something |::
::| that I'm scared of who tells me I'll burn in Hell if I don't love him. |::
::| So I turned away from God. |::
::| |::
::| I had a vision when we first went to London and we were looking for a |::
::| flat and living in a hotel and Jesus Christ appeared over the top of my |::
::| bed. This was really real - whether it was a hallucination or whatever, |::
::| and I wasn't on drugs - and he hung over my bed and I thought 'Jesus |::
::| wants to have sex with me', and I just said FUCK OFF. And that was a |::
::| Catholic saying fuck off to Jesus Christ. Although I was a lot older |::
::| then, for two weeks I had this impulse, every time I walked past a |::
::| church or a chapel I wanted to go in, but going 'no no, be strong, |::
::| don't give in to him, don't give in to THAT'. You stub your toe and you |::
::| think, 'well what have I done, what am I being punished for?' That's |::
::| what Catholicism does to you. I just thought it's sick and I'm not |::
::| having anything to do with it. If I go to Hell that's OK cos all my |::
::| friends are going there anyway. |::
::| |::
::| Eternal heaven with Cliff Richard or eternal hell with Jimi Hendrix, |::
::| who do you want to spend eternity with? |::
::| |::
::| I'll go to Hell thankyou very much, that's where the party is! |::
::| |::
::| Did you move away fairly quickly? |::
::| |::
::| I lived there until I was sixteen, as soon as I was old enough to leave |::
::| home. I left and went to live in Paisley where my boyfriend lived, also |::
::| where there was a punk club. I moved there and never wanted to go back |::
::| to that place again. I hated it. Kids would set flats on fire, a |::
::| highrise flat, people would die. One of the wee boys that set the fire |::
::| was ten years old, he died as well. And his brother and other brother |::
::| died joyriding. His mum and dad were complete alcoholics who never knew |::
::| where their kids were anyway. It was a hellhole, it was SO awful. |::
::| |::
::| The only reason we stayed there is cos we were poor. It wasn't cos we |::
::| were bad, we were just a large poor Catholic family, and cos we were |::
::| moving out of one area into another we had three choices of council |::
::| house, and that was the third choice. My mum had turned down the other |::
::| two, she didn't like them. Turned out it was a bad choice we were stuck |::
::| with for ages. I'm sure it moulded me quite a lot, the way I think |::
::| about things. |::
::| |::
::| It's extraordinary how you can have gone from such a happy optimistic |::
::| child to a place that forces you to see the other end of the spectrum. |::
::| Something that always draws me back to Strawberry Switchblade is that |::
::| bittersweet thing, the way it is dark and melancholy yet very delicate |::
::| and beautiful. Self-contained partly to keep the world out but also |::
::| because there's enough inside to sustain, looking outside and reaching |::
::| inside. |::
::| |::
::| My whole life's been like that. |::
::| |::
::| It's that mix that makes the greatest and most moving pop music. |::
::| |::
::| The Mary Chain are like that as well. |::
::| |::
::| Tim Buckley... |::
::| |::
::| Oh yeah, Tim Buckley, wow. |::
::| |::
::| That sort of thing that soars and yet there's an ache, a worldly-wise |::
::| ache, underneath it. The greatest pop music hits that, emotions that |::
::| you can't quite name from simplistic lists. It interesting seeing your |::
::| growing up as so directly and intensely feeding that mix, that |::
::| emotional blend that characterises the music. |::
::| |::
::| I guess it's that kind of influence that still influences my lyrics |::
::| now. They're still like that. I'm a kind of happy-sad person. I'd like |::
::| the world to be a nice place, but it's not. So I chose to live |::
::| somewhere like this where it's really beautiful and it's really |::
::| isolated and you sort of create your own universe out here. You can |::
::| ignore things. I never buy newspapers and it's not because I'm stupid |::
::| and I can't read, it's because I don't want to read it. I don't really |::
::| buy into this society, I really don't. I keep as far out of it as I |::
::| possibly can, and I just don't want any connections with it. If I could |::
::| completely drop out I would, but I can't cos I've got kids that go to |::
::| school. If I was on my own I could easily see myself being an old woman |::
::| in the woods. A witch in the woods who'd do potions for everybody, that |::
::| would do me! |::
::| |::
::| There's a little grotto down there on this property and it's fantastic. |::
::| In fact Boyd Rice initiated Marc Almond into the Church of Satan in the |::
::| little grotto that's just a walk down there! It's in that book Marc |::
::| Almond wrote [Tainted Life], he mentions that he comes out to Rose's to |::
::| go down to the grotto to be initiated into the Church of Satan by Boyd |::
::| Rice. I don't think the landlord would appreciate that! |::
::| |::
::| [Change of tape - comes back in on...] |::
::| |::
::| It was like this when I talked to Jill, four hours of tape! |::
::| |::
::| We're a pair of gabs, I tell you! |::
::| |::
::| Totally! It's uncanny, it's so obvious that you worked together. And |::
::| when you were talking about writing the songs, you used almost |::
::| identical words to hers about the process. |::
::| |::
::| Really? |::
::| |::
::| Yeah, really emphasising how much of a laugh you had doing it. |::
::| |::
::| Yeah, and bouncing enthusiasm off each other was just great. |::
::| |::
::| And like her I've got a list of questions but I just need to look at it |::
::| once in a while and cross off the ones you've answered in the course of |::
::| just talking. |::
::| |::
::| It was great, we used to get together and think, 'the theme is red and |::
::| black today' and throw everything that we possessed on the floor - |::
::| beads, jewellery, earrings, everything that was red and black - put it |::
::| all on then go out, jangling everywhere we went! People would hear us |::
::| coming from half an hour before we got there! |::
::| |::
::| Recording the album, then. |::
::| |::
::| We actually recorded the album in quite a few different studios which, |::
::| instead of going into one studio and recording the whole album, we |::
::| travelled around and did different songs in different studios. |::
::| |::
::| Jill said you did two songs with Robin Millar. What was that? |::
::| |::
::| Yeah, he didn't like women. |::
::| |::
::| Really? He produced Sade and things at the same time. |::
::| |::
::| I think it was Jolene we did with him, was it not? |::
::| |::
::| No, wasn't that with Clive Langer? |::
::| |::
::| It was HIM that didn't like women. He didn't even talk to us. His |::
::| engineer did most of the work, he just put his name on it. The engineer |::
::| did most of the work, I can't remember his name. What tracks did we do |::
::| with Robin Millar? |::
::| |::
::| You recorded Secrets and... |::
::| |::
::| Oh yeah, Secrets and Lost In Space. We changed that to...I think it was |::
::| called Lost In Space then, actually. Secrets and, it could have been |::
::| Poor Hearts. |::
::| |::
::| Yes, it was those two. [Robin Millar believes there was a third track, |::
::| known as Lost In Space] |::
::| |::
::| You know the guy I met in the pub up there? That's the session he |::
::| worked on. I liked his studio actually. All the other studios were had |::
::| green carpets and stuff, his had a really nice blue carpet! |::
::| |::
::| Why didn't it work out with Robin Millar? |::
::| |::
::| I don't know what happened. We weren't continuing any further, that was |::
::| quite near the end, we were recording new songs for the next album, |::
::| doing demos for it and stuff like that. |::
::| |::
::| The Robin Millar stuff? I thought it was before then. In Jill's memory |::
::| you did two songs with him as a trial producer with a view to him doing |::
::| the album, but it didn't go down well. |::
::| |::
::| Well it couldn't have been Poor Hearts then cos Poor Hearts was written |::
::| much later. |::
::| |::
::| It's definitely Secrets and Poor Hearts. |::
::| |::
::| I liked working with Robin Millar, I think it was afterwards, I'm SURE |::
::| it was afterwards. |::
::| |::
::| Why would you re-record Secrets? |::
::| |::
::| It's all a jumble in my head. I've probably got the date on a tape |::
::| somewhere. I actually quite liked working with Robin Millar, so that |::
::| [not using him for any released material] would have been a record |::
::| company decision. I liked those demos. |::
::| |::
::| Did the record company hold that much sway? |::
::| |::
::| Well, we met loads of producers. We met all these guys, they'd come in |::
::| and say 'this is what we're going to do', and I'd think, 'no, that's |::
::| not what we're going to do, these are our songs, we have a concept, we |::
::| created them and we want to see it through to the end, so we don't want |::
::| to just hand them over to you and say Here you go'. There were a lot of |::
::| producers we knew who were completely like that, who were completely |::
::| the producer's more important than the artist sort of thing, like HE'S |::
::| the artist. We met a few like that who we didn't want to work with. |::
::| |::
::| Then we met a couple that we tried things out with, and the one that we |::
::| ended up with, David Motion, he was meant to be a try-out as well, to |::
::| see how it would go. I was quite unsure - I really liked David Motion, |::
::| a really nice guy, he was really easy and pleasant to work with but I |::
::| was really unconvinced at first because I didn't like some of the |::
::| sounds that were coming out. They were going 'give it time, give it |::
::| time,' but the more time you gave it the more money was being put into |::
::| the project and the more fighting you would have to do with the record |::
::| company. So in the end we ended up caught in that trap, basically. And |::
::| in a sense as much as I love Motion I probably wouldn't have gone that |::
::| way. |::
::| |::
::| What would you have preferred to see it come out like? |::
::| |::
::| I would have rather it sounded less dated, I would have rather we used |::
::| more real instruments, like Trees And Flowers for example with oboe and |::
::| french horn. I know we did have that on some of the other tracks as |::
::| well, people like Andrew Poppy did a couple of arrangements and David |::
::| Bedford did another couple where we'd have an orchestra and that's |::
::| really nice. I would have rather worked with real instruments to be |::
::| perfectly honest and not all synths and stuff like that cos it was not |::
::| my passion at the time. |::
::| |::
::| Having heard the tapes of the Radio 1 sessions and other early |::
::| versions, the bombast of a lot of the released versions is quite |::
::| overpowering by comparison. |::
::| |::
::| I know. It was quite weird really, cos it was a medium that I wasnae |::
::| that familiar with - synthesisers and stuff - not being very |::
::| technically minded. I could work the mixing desk, I'd engineer for him |::
::| and stuff like that cos I really liked doing that. I do like synths a |::
::| lot more now than I did then, I buy them now and I use them now. But I |::
::| kinda always really liked the sound of Trees And Flowers, the fragility |::
::| of it and the beauty of the pure sounding instruments that are played |::
::| well, it just sounded really really nice. I would have liked to have |::
::| done a bit more of that, especially when you get little hook lines in |::
::| something like On The Journey From Home [Being Cold] with the melodica |::
::| parts, melodies like that. If you have really strong melodies, OK we |::
::| played them on melodicas and we were playing harmonies over each other, |::
::| but I would have been so nice if some of the other songs could have |::
::| been that rich. They wouldn't have dated quite as much. I know loads of |::
::| people are back into 80s stuff again. |::
::| |::
::| It's in a revivalist way though, superficial and nostalgic rather than |::
::| creative. |::
::| |::
::| Yeah and kinda kitschy. I would love to do that album again, I think |::
::| those songs just weren't done justice to. I don't want to say anything |::
::| that would reflect badly on anybody that was involved in it cos I liked |::
::| everybody that we worked with, but I really think they [the songs] |::
::| weren't done justice to, they could have been SO much better. |::
::| |::
::| It's difficult with new technology to spot what's going to date badly, |::
::| you can't tell what's going to be superseded and what's going to stick |::
::| around. |::
::| |::
::| Well of course, I know, of course. And there were some great sounds |::
::| actually- I love that whale sound on Deep Water which was a synth |::
::| sound. I love that sound, it gets you in the gut. I really liked quite |::
::| a lot of it but there were bits of it that are too rinky-dink for me. |::
::| You know what I mean? Like, press the sequencer and everything just |::
::| goes dut-dut-dut-dut-dut, there's nothing organic in there. Where's the |::
::| breath? Where's the human in that? Everything's digitalised. I like |::
::| analogue, although I use digital now as well, I do like that REAL |::
::| feeling about music when you can actually hear somebody's breath or you |::
::| can hear them play the guitar, you can almost hear the fingers touching |::
::| it. |::
::| |::
::| I love acoustic stuff where you can hear the fret squeak as the fingers |::
::| move on the wound strings. |::
::| |::
::| When they squeak and it's a good squeak in the right place I like it, |::
::| but if it's a squeak that's 'that wasn't supposed to be there', I don't |::
::| like that actually. Although I'm guilty of it sometimes. I like |::
::| deliberate ones though. Music's just one of those things, it does |::
::| something different to everybody. I think those songs could have been |::
::| SO much better if we'd gone with the same approach as Trees And Flowers |::
::| and done it with real instruments, and we should have blended it a bit, |::
::| but it all went dut-dut-dut-dut-dut. And some of the songs, my voice is |::
::| so shrill, it's really high and I just think, god, I sound like a |::
::| chipmunk. |::
::| |::
::| But it's that which gives it the fragility, the delicate touch. |::
::| Harmonies build it up but it's the high voice that creates that |::
::| gorgeous fragile bit, that's the thing that gives it its real |::
::| sensitivity, its real power. |::
::| |::
::| I like them, but I like them when they have a bass harmony down there |::
::| somewhere. I like harmonies that are really close, that kind of |::
::| resonate almost, like they're the same organic thing. A lot of things I |::
::| do now I like to put really close harmonies so it has almost a |::
::| Gregorian feel. Then I like to put really high things over the top. But |::
::| some of the first album I did in Sorrow I went overboard on harmonies, |::
::| harmonies everywhere, put on another one! The second album round I |::
::| thought, 'you're being too predictable putting harmonies everywhere |::
::| just because you can,' so I pulled back from that a wee bit. |::
::| |::
::| But it's good to experiment. I want to record an album that's all |::
::| vocals, all the different melodies are vocal melodies. Maybe just a bit |::
::| of simple heartbeat drumming a bit of flute or something like that, but |::
::| mostly all vocal melodies coming from all directions. I really want to |::
::| do that, something to completely surround your head and get drowned in. |::
::| |::
::| I did a gig recently and a guy came up to me and said 'your songs |::
::| really haunt me,' and I thought that's a real compliment. And we did |::
::| this gig - this is not about Strawberry Switchblade - we did this gig |::
::| in America and the whole audience started crying, it was amazing, it |::
::| was totally amazing. First of all this girl started crying, then |::
::| someone else started crying, her boyfriend started crying, it was |::
::| fucking amazing. What a compliment, to make all these people cry, you |::
::| know? A whole bunch of them - ten of them - got a plane and came over |::
::| when we played Whitby last year. |::
::| |::
::| We did one gig in Germany, the venue had a lot to do with it, it was |::
::| this massive big monument and it was circular. We opened with a vocal |::
::| piece and then bagpipes came in, really really soft and gentle at the |::
::| beginning. There was a little glass dome at the very top of the |::
::| monument and just as I started singing the sun came through this dome |::
::| and put a ray of light where I was stood, it was fucking angelic! And |::
::| this girl who was in one of the other bands, the cellist with |::
::| Backworld, she came back afterwards and said when the ray of light came |::
::| through her eyes just filled. If somebody tells you that you can make |::
::| them cry it's really touching. You're touching people then. |::
::| |::
::| The thing that separates good music from bad whatever the genre is a |::
::| thing Mick Jones from The Clash said. He said he was sick of seeing all |::
::| these big bands doing enormous gigs that just took your money and put |::
::| you in a field while they played and at the end of it you were exactly |::
::| the same but older and poorer. They just take your money and time, they |::
::| don't GIVE you anything. He said he wanted to be in a band that gives |::
::| more than it takes, something that move people, make them feel |::
::| different at the end than they were at the start. That power to affect |::
::| is the thing that separates all good music from the bad. Whether you're |::
::| listening to Dead Can Dance or Nirvana, they both pass that test. |::
::| |::
::| I totally agree with you. Music is there to move you, it's there to |::
::| play with your emotions. Even when I was growing up the stuff I was |::
::| drawn to was the stuff I could FEEL, it's the passion in music - |::
::| whether it's tragic or beautiful or whatever - it's that passion in |::
::| music that makes music so powerful, which gives music the power over |::
::| you as a human being. |::
::| |::
::| I remember I just love Jah Wobble's bass playing cos it used to thud |::
::| you right in the gut, right in the solar plexus. Some people's music |::
::| just has that. This Is The Day by The The, that accordion part, god, I |::
::| used to play that over and over on my walkman all the time. Whenever I |::
::| was feeling shit or depressed I'd put that on and I'd go [sings melody] |::
::| I just loved it so much. I got an accordion, I needed to play that |::
::| melody! There are just some things so brilliant that will stay with you |::
::| forever. |::
::| |::
::| This is why people still want to talk to you about Strawberry |::
::| Switchblade or why people still listen to the Mary Chain, when nobody |::
::| wants to interview a contemporary like Nick Kamen about his records. |::
::| It's the difference between who means it and who doesn't. |::
::| |::
::| People keep asking me to release this demo I did just after Switchblade |::
::| split up, the Sunflower Demos. A lot of the songs are like the |::
::| Switchblade album, and some of them aren't quite so 80s sounding. I |::
::| thought, 'I don't want to release it, I sound like a chipmunk,' and |::
::| then I just thought OK, so I'm going to release it quite soon. It's |::
::| ready to go out, I've just got to do the artwork for it, and that'll be |::
::| stuff that I was working on that might have been on the second |::
::| Strawberry Switchblade album. Loads of people have been writing to the |::
::| website saying they've heard about it and want to hear it, I've been |::
::| nagged so much by lots of people to release it, so I'm going to put it |::
::| out. |::
::| |::
::| We've talked about how much control you had over choice of producer. |::
::| How much control did you have while the album was being made? |::
::| |::
::| We could say yes and no to things. If we really didn't like something |::
::| we did have the power of veto. But also, there were so many bloody |::
::| cooks in the kitchen, d'you know what I mean? At first there was just |::
::| me, Jill and David Motion, but then Balfe would come along and put his |::
::| tuppence worth in and Drummond, and then the head of the company. But |::
::| we did have a lot of control over it in the end actually, about how it |::
::| was mixed and stuff like that, but if you're having control over |::
::| something you're not a hundred percent in love with it doesn't mean as |::
::| much. |::
::| |::
::| The one thing I don't like about that is that the guitars are hardly |::
::| audible at all. There are guitars on that album believe it or not, but |::
::| they were mixed so low cos David Motion doesn't like guitars, so low |::
::| that Jill and I were almost mixed out of the album, apart from vocally. |::
::| Not all, there are obvious bits where our presence is there, but I |::
::| think that I would've done things a wee bit different. But it was that |::
::| 'just give it a chance, give it a chance,' and then the album's |::
::| finished and you're listening to it, and then what do you say? 'I hate |::
::| it, we've spent ú250,000 and I want to do it again'? We'd just been |::
::| round all these different studios and that would have really fucked |::
::| them off. |::
::| |::
::| I was objecting to some of the stuff we were doing, right at the |::
::| beginning of the recording sessions, thinking, 'hmm I don't think I |::
::| like the way this is going', and it was all 'keep trying, give it a |::
::| chance'; acquire a taste for it, basically. |::
::| |::
::| For your own record! |::
::| |::
::| Exactly! And I was 'hmm, I still don't like it', and at the end of the |::
::| day there were so many layers of things on. There were a lot of things |::
::| I DID like about it, but, you know. But if I'd been recording it myself |::
::| it would've been very different. I've a recording studio through there |::
::| now, so what I do, I do it myself so I've got complete control. And |::
::| that's the way it should be really. I mean, if you write a song you |::
::| should see it through to the end. |::
::| |::
::| OK, once it's on vinyl or CD it belongs to whoever buys it, that's my |::
::| opinion anyway. Send your baby off out into the world and people will |::
::| listen to it and get what they get from it or not, but you've done your |::
::| bit then and you're happy with it when you send it out, and it's a much |::
::| better feeling than not being happy with it when you send it out, or |::
::| being doubtful. |::
::| |::
::| It was so confusing, everything was going so fast, we were off doing |::
::| this, off doing that, then back recording something else. It was kinda |::
::| hard to be focussed on 'DO I like this or not?', do you know what I |::
::| mean? It was really confusing. A lot of pushing and shoving was going |::
::| on and I think Jill and I were wiped out by the workload we were doing. |::
::| Especially when we were doing crap stuff, spending the whole bloody day |::
::| doing a photo session, it was the most boring thing in the world. I |::
::| didn't mind interviews so much but I hated photo sessions. |::
::| |::
::| How did Jill's agoraphobia affect having to travel and go out to do |::
::| gigs and interviews and stuff? |::
::| |::
::| Some times it was worse than others. I mean, there were times where the |::
::| tour van was sat outside and she would not come out of the house, and |::
::| there'd be all sorts of bribes but she just couldn't get out of the |::
::| house. Eventually we'd get her into the van. |::
::| |::
::| She'd had valium given to her from the doctor once when we were going |::
::| to Japan, and she had a fit in the airport. She just started screaming |::
::| and saying 'I'm not getting on the plane'. She didn't like planes |::
::| anyway, that's a whole part of the agoraphobia as well. 'It's unnatural |::
::| for something that big and heavy to fly, I'm not getting on it'! So I |::
::| ended up getting on the plane myself, off to Japan the first time. |::
::| Well, I wasn't by myself, David Balfe the manager was there and our |::
::| translator from the record company was there. Jill was left at the |::
::| airport. We were supposed to be doing gigs as well. |::
::| |::
::| The record company had to buy her boyfriend a ticket cos she could |::
::| travel with him sometimes. He got a ticket and they flew over the next |::
::| day or the day after that. But I had to deal with the press stuff and |::
::| it was just madness, I was so exhausted, it was so mad and I couldn't |::
::| wait till she got there, cos it's better when there's the two of you. |::
::| |::
::| It affected quite a lot of things quite a lot of times. Sometimes I'd |::
::| have to go down to London on my own to do meetings with the record |::
::| company or do auditions and stuff like that which I really didn't enjoy |::
::| doing. I don't like saying to somebody 'you're not what I'm looking |::
::| for,' especially when they're well respected in a circle of musicians. |::
::| It was things like that that were really difficult. |::
::| |::
::| We were going to do the second album - or we were talking about doing |::
::| the second album - with Ryuichi Sakamoto. We had the big meeting in |::
::| Japan with him and he was really up for doing it but we had to go to |::
::| Japan to do it and stay in Japan for two months, and Jill wouldn't do |::
::| it. She wasn't having any of it, 'can he not come here?'. David Balfe |::
::| was a massive fan of his and he was like, 'can you sign this album?' ! |::
::| But Jill couldn't go to Japan and stay there. So that was a hindrance. |::
::| We couldn't play New York, we couldn't play Hong Kong, cos we had gigs |::
::| in places like that. We were supposed to go to New York on bloody |::
::| Concorde and come back on the QE2! I was, 'oh wow, that'd be so |::
::| fantastic!', but Jill would say 'I can't go'. |::
::| |::
::| And then there was supposed to be some big opening or something in |::
::| Japan and we were supposed to go to that, and we couldn't do it. I |::
::| would have gone myself cos one of us is better than none of us, but at |::
::| that point there was a wee bit of ego shit going on in the band, so it |::
::| wasn't gonna happen. |::
::| |::
::| It kinda steadily got worse, the agoraphobia, because we were being |::
::| asked to do more things and go further afield. Someone said to Jill |::
::| once - the guy who supposed to be doing the sound on tour, the road |::
::| manager - he said 'I think you're in the wrong profession if you're |::
::| agoraphobic,' and she got really really upset and her boyfriend got |::
::| really upset with this guy and there was a massive big row. The guy |::
::| punched Jill's boyfriend on the nose. |::
::| |::
::| How was everyone else about it, how tolerant were people? |::
::| |::
::| I think most people were really pretty tolerant, actually. She'd always |::
::| had agoraphobia as long as I'd known her. It's a horrible condition to |::
::| have, when she was panicking she was REALLY scared. It's not like 'I |::
::| don't want to do this,' she was really really scared, scared for her |::
::| life, that kind of fear. And I know what that feels like from a |::
::| different kind of angle, being scared for your life - I've felt that |::
::| before but not through agoraphobia. Most people were pretty tolerant I |::
::| think. Her boyfriend was really good cos he'd go places with her. |::
::| |::
::| At the end she was seeing hypnotists and stuff, we'd tried everything, |::
::| the record company had tried. She'd meditation tapes and all sorts of |::
::| stuff, and she went to group therapy where people had all sorts of |::
::| different phobias. And sometimes she would get better. It was |::
::| completely unpredictable, that was the worst thing about it, it was so |::
::| completely unpredictable. If it was like PMT and you knew it was coming |::
::| then you could avoid it! |::
::| |::
::| From my point of view it would be really disappointing. I was really |::
::| disappointed we couldn't go to Hong Kong, but I completely understood |::
::| why. And maybe we could do it later. And New York, I really wanted to |::
::| play New York but, well, we've hundreds of other things to do. But I |::
::| did want to go on the QE2 and Concorde! |::
::| |::
::| Surely you must've been aware at the time that that kind of opportunity |::
::| isn't going to be there forever? |::
::| |::
::| I know, I know, exactly. But it [agoraphobia] had always been there, so |::
::| we'd lived with it from the beginning. But there were real |::
::| opportunities missed, like going to Japan for two months and doing the |::
::| album with Ryuichi Sakamoto, which would've been really interesting. We |::
::| had a really funny time when we all went out to dinner with him and we |::
::| were chatting about it with him. We were all talking about different |::
::| things around the table and that end of the table was talking about |::
::| food, this end of the table was talking about something else. That end |::
::| of the table started talking about dogs that were popular in Japan as |::
::| pets and I turned to Ryuichi Sakamoto and said 'do you eat dogs?' and |::
::| David Balfe just looked at me and went completely bright red, cos he |::
::| was the Big Fan. |::
::| |::
::| I was always saying inappropriate things to people, not deliberately |::
::| but things would slip out. Like we were at the Rock and Pop Awards and |::
::| all the big guys in the business were there and I'd go 'I'm just off to |::
::| the toilet to touch myself up'. I was only talking about my make-up, |::
::| but everyone was chins dropped to their chests. [laughs] I'd go 'oh!', |::
::| realising what I'd just said. I used to do stuff like that all the |::
::| time. |::
::| |::
::| So, Balfe was like, 'there she goes again! You've completely humiliated |::
::| us now!'. But the Japanese eat dogs anyway. It's no big deal. |::
::| |::
::| I didn't realise the second album had got as far as sorting out a |::
::| producer. |::
::| |::
::| Oh yeah, yeah definitely. He [Sakamoto] looked like the one we were |::
::| going to go with. Balfe REALLY wanted to go with him. |::
::| |::
::| How close did it get to starting? |::
::| |::
::| We split up quite soon before. We were supposed to go back to Japan |::
::| really soon and do a tour there, a couple of months or something like |::
::| that. We had songs ready, the next single was going to be Cut With A |::
::| Cake Knife. We had a whole year or two's plans ahead of us. |::
::| |::
::| We were working with [video director] Tim Pope. That was one of the |::
::| major upsets for me. I loved his videos and I just thought Tim Pope and |::
::| us were a perfect combination, we had good fun working together. We |::
::| talked to other video directors and they came up with the naffest ideas |::
::| like Jill sitting on a bed with a box of chocolates and real girly |::
::| sexist shit, real crap, no sense of art or anything, just boring video. |::
::| |::
::| Then the Jolene one came up and we talked to Tim Pope about it. With |::
::| Tim Pope we put ideas together, jumbled them up and came out with |::
::| something good. But we went with this other company - well we were |::
::| forced into it basically; 'just try it', famous last words. So we did |::
::| this video with somebody else, because if we do THIS then the record |::
::| company will let us do THAT, something we want to do that they didn't |::
::| want to do. It was like that all the time. We shouldn't be in that |::
::| situation, we should be calling the shots because this is our art form, |::
::| it's what we DO. Then we did the video and I loved bits of it but a lot |::
::| of the best bits they didn't put in cos they thought they were too |::
::| risquΘ for 1985. |::
::| |::
::| What sort of stuff? |::
::| |::
::| I don't know if you saw the Jolene video. You know the cage bit? |::
::| There's a bit where I'm dancing in a catsuit, a full-body catsuit with |::
::| hands and feet and everything. I was dancing in a cage with flowers. |::
::| There was a camera on rails, and I had shackles and handcuffs on and |::
::| chains, and I was following the camera; it was really pretty fetish |::
::| actually. And they just cut out all the best bits that I thought were |::
::| really really good and that said 'this is Strawberry Switchblade'. We |::
::| have people who like that side of us as well, it's not just people who |::
::| just like Strawberries; some people like the Switchblade. |::
::| |::
::| They cut out all the bits that would make people's heads turn round and |::
::| make them stop saying 'they're twee'. THIS is how we get out of that, |::
::| it's not by turning into someone who looks like she should be singing |::
::| in the West End or on Dallas or something like that. This is how we get |::
::| out of people calling us twee, just by letting us be who we are, |::
::| because we're not twee. Just let us express ourselves completely. But |::
::| that wasn't going to happen. |::
::| |::
::| Also there was this dance scene that was supposed to be shot in a club, |::
::| the cage was in a club. I thought, if we're gonna have all of these |::
::| extras let's get all our friends. Actually I don't think Jill wanted to |::
::| get her friends, because I think she thought some of my friends were |::
::| too weird. We ended up getting all these extras who looked like a bunch |::
::| of wankers. It was so cheesy, a bad cheesy eighties club thing with |::
::| guys dancing about in tights. |::
::| |::
::| Jolene's a fairly cheesy song to have done though, isn't it? What was |::
::| the idea? |::
::| |::
::| It was Bill Drummond. Loved the song, loved Dolly Parton, thought 'you |::
::| have to do this song'. And that was another thing - we should have gone |::
::| for the Marianne Faithfull one when they wanted us to do that. They |::
::| wanted us to do a cover. |::
::| |::
::| Which Marianne Faithfull song? |::
::| |::
::| The Marianne Faithfull one was put to us much earlier on, it was As |::
::| Tears Go By, which is a beautiful song and I love it. I actually have |::
::| done a version with Dave Ball which was not released, but we did a |::
::| version of it. Rob Dickins loved that song and wanted us to do a |::
::| version, but we at that point didn't want to do a cover. It was too |::
::| early in our career to do a cover song. I think it was just after Since |::
::| Yesterday or something like that, so we didn't want to do a cover that |::
::| soon cos then we're going to get into the covers thing, and we want to |::
::| our own songs, so we bluntly refused that. |::
::| |::
::| But then after a couple of other singles the Jolene thing came up and |::
::| that was one of those 'you do this for me I'll do that for you' things. |::
::| Things were all falling apart by that time, we couldn't use the video |::
::| director we wanted. I actually liked the song Jolene and I liked Dolly |::
::| Parton, but it was still a trade-off and I was anti it purely on the |::
::| principle that it was a trade-off. They wanted it to be a club thing |::
::| and I wasn't into that scene at all. I didn't care if the records got |::
::| played in clubs. We're not releasing records to be played in clubs, |::
::| we're releasing records cos we're musicians and that's what we do. They |::
::| wanted to do it cos it would make more money and blah blah blah. |::
::| |::
::| So that's when it started falling apart basically. That whole Jolene |::
::| era was too many compromises and not enough comebacks. |::
::| |::
::| Did both you and Jill feel like there were too many compromises? |::
::| |::
::| Yeah, I think so. |::
::| |::
::| It was also when you were coming apart as a team as well. |::
::| |::
::| A lot of that was because I really felt really pressured. I mean, I'd |::
::| come home at the end of the day and out of pure exhaustion of arguing a |::
::| point with the record company, I'd just burst into tears. |::
::| |::
::| I was SO frustrated and angry cos I always made sure we had group |::
::| meetings every Friday and made sure we talked about whatever we thought |::
::| was the right thing to do. And Jill and I would sit down and agree on |::
::| everything, we'd agree we have to tell Rob Dickins and we have to tell |::
::| the record company what we don't want to do. But then we'd get in there |::
::| and Jill would be too shy to say it, and she'd also be too shy to say |::
::| 'I agree with Rose,' even though we'd said it at home. So I felt like I |::
::| was bashing my head off a brick wall all the time, cos I was like the |::
::| baddie going in going 'no no no no,' looking for back-up and it wasn't |::
::| there. Jill would've probably just gone with it, rather than face the |::
::| conflict. |::
::| |::
::| I couldn't stand it any more. I couldn't stand always being at a |::
::| battle, and actually knowing that Jill WAS on my side - on OUR side - |::
::| but not being able to say something. Sometimes her boyfriend would say |::
::| something on her behalf, but the record company really didn't like |::
::| that. It was hard work - I was having to push our point of view but |::
::| they were saying it was my point of view cos they could probably get |::
::| Jill to agree if they pushed hard enough, and I was the troublemaker. |::
::| |::
::| I said 'if I can't use Tim Pope it's the beginning of the end for me,' |::
::| and Tim Pope was saying 'don't do that on my behalf'. I said, 'I |::
::| wasn't, I was doing it on OUR behalf. We started out this band. Why fix |::
::| something if it's not broken? We're really happy the way things are and |::
::| we're not just standing up for you, we're standing up for OURSELVES, |::
::| it's cos WE like this arrangement'. |::
::| |::
::| The record company were just getting the better of us more often than |::
::| not. I thought, this is not why I wanted to be in a band, to be |::
::| stressed and go home at the end of the day feeling that bad, to sit |::
::| down and burst into tears and think 'shit, I hate this, I can't stand |::
::| it and I'm going to have to do it all again tomorrow'. I started being |::
::| really really short with people, being really blunt and telling them |::
::| exactly what I thought. |::
::| |::
::| I said to Jill, 'if it's going to continue like this I don't want it to |::
::| continue at all'. It was one of the Friday group meetings, she came |::
::| downstairs and I said I'm really not happy with the way things are |::
::| going and if we can't change it, if it's not going to change then I'd |::
::| rather we split up, I'd rather we just didn't do it any more cos it's |::
::| not what we wanted to do. She just said that she agreed, or something |::
::| like that. |::
::| |::
::| It could've been easier you know, we didn't HAVE to break up, we |::
::| could've sorted it out somehow but there just wasn't the... I don't |::
::| know. Also we'd just sacked our manager as well, we sacked David Balfe |::
::| because we didn't trust him because he was manipulating one of us off |::
::| the other. That's why I always had the Friday group meetings cos when |::
::| we were a four piece we had the meetings in front of our manager, so |::
::| that everything was said in front of everybody and nobody could be |::
::| grouping off into little groups. Cos Balfey's gonna talk to me and say |::
::| things how he knows Rose likes to hear things, he's gonna say it to |::
::| Jill how he knows Jill likes to hear things, and I'd say let's get |::
::| together and hear how we all like to hear things. |::
::| |::
::| It's amazing, talking to Jill and Julian Cope and other people who have |::
::| known and worked with Balfe, everybody has got specific stories about |::
::| him that STILL make their hackles rise. |::
::| |::
::| It's funny, Jill started going out with Balfey for a while as well. She |::
::| had this little sneaky affair with him at one point. I think she really |::
::| liked him actually. But that all fell apart. That was another thing, |::
::| 'what's going on there?'. I'd have thought it was funny, except that |::
::| David Balfe had this girlfriend at Warner Brothers and they'd just |::
::| bought a place together and she was working for us at the record |::
::| company. It was really close to the edge, she could really fuck things |::
::| up for us inside if she found out about that. She was a really nice |::
::| girl and both Jill and I liked her. |::
::| |::
::| Balfey told all his friends in Madness that he'd had both of us, they |::
::| had that really male crap. I got really angry with him for that, just a |::
::| male chauvinist idiot. Once, we'd just come off stage at a TV show and |::
::| as we got into the elevator he slapped or pinched my backside in front |::
::| of all the audience. I was so fucking furious that I turned round and |::
::| slapped him really hard across the face. I said, if you ever do that |::
::| again Drew will slap you even harder. He said he was sorry and he knew |::
::| not to go there again. It was so patronising cos we were young girls. |::
::| It's like, fuck off, I don't care how friendly you are and how much I |::
::| like you, you do not humiliate me in front of all those people. |::
::| |::
::| He wouldn't do an equivalent thing for a male artist, it is blatantly |::
::| sexist. |::
::| |::
::| It is completely. More than anything, it was patronising and |::
::| humiliating in front of the people who were behind us. I was so angry |::
::| with him for that, he never did do it again. And there were money |::
::| things that I didn't trust him about. |::
::| |::
::| That's the favourite subject with everyone who says things about him. |::
::| |::
::| Is it? He claims I owe HIM money cos I didn't pay rent at this flat. |::
::| Which is true, for the last little bit I did owe him ú500, but when we |::
::| went to Japan and we worked out all the money - we were doing gigs and |::
::| getting paid quite well - and we were going to make a certain amount of |::
::| money, and that was going to go on the lighting and whatever we were |::
::| going to take over, and in the end there'd be a certain amount of |::
::| profit. And the profit never showed up anywhere. |::
::| |::
::| This was just when we were splitting up, we were asking, where's all |::
::| the money from the Japan thing? I started really getting interested in |::
::| the money then. Before that we'd just give ourselves a wage and let the |::
::| accountant deal with it. In the beginning I didn't realise that when |::
::| you go on TV you get paid for it. I didn't know that, I really didn't. |::
::| So all those times we went on TV, which was hundreds of times, we were |::
::| getting paid for it. So hang on, we should have money. And after the |::
::| Japan thing, where's the money? |::
::| |::
::| Money definitely went missing. Or it was spent on something we didn't |::
::| agree on. It was in our contract that if Balfey was going to come on |::
::| tour with us, even as our manager, he had to pay his air fare out of |::
::| his 20%. I stipulated that right at the beginning, and it was agreed |::
::| on. I don't know if it ever happened though. We were so busy that we |::
::| couldn't keep our eyes on everything. |::
::| |::
::| Balfey would always be edgy ringing me up, cos he could never predict |::
::| what I was going to say about any specific thing he put forward about |::
::| the band. He said to Drew that it fucked with his head cos he never |::
::| knew which angle to come at with me. |::
::| |::
::| Imagine him being so scheming he's got think about his angle to come |::
::| at, rather than talk about something and just see what you think. |::
::| |::
::| Exactly. He'd say something to Jill in one way and say it to me in |::
::| another way. If he thought I was going to object to something he'd |::
::| fluff it all up, but I'm not stupid; I know Balfe and I'd know what he |::
::| was doing so it didn't work. |::
::| |::
::| Once he'd got all these badges done with photographs that I really |::
::| didn't like and - this is really trivial, it was really petty of me to |::
::| do this - but I said I'm not going out of the door, I'm not doing the |::
::| gigs unless you bring the box of badges back. I wouldn't have made such |::
::| a fuss but I'd said to him before that I don't want to use that |::
::| picture, I really don't want to use it. Balfe came out with some thing |::
::| about how they just came back like that and he'd told them I didn't |::
::| want it with that picture. I said well, we don't use them then. He said |::
::| we have to now we've got them, I said if you want to use those badges |::
::| you take them on tour and not me. It was because I knew he had no |::
::| intentions of ever listening to me when I said I didn't want those |::
::| badges done. |::
::| |::
::| It's like with the record company saying what to wear, the people |::
::| around you being unclear about whose band it is, and whose band it |::
::| isn't. |::
::| |::
::| And sometimes you have to do really stupid petty things like that. |::
::| |::
::| It's not like there's only one picture of you available, so for someone |::
::| outside to be deciding what picture to use irrespective of what the |::
::| artist thinks, THAT'S where the pettiness kicks in, and you have to |::
::| play on that level to get it stopped. |::
::| |::
::| I know. And it got so stupid. I didn't want those little stupid |::
::| catfights, it was a waste of time, it was a waste of mental energy, it |::
::| was just not worth it. So I ended up thinking I don't want this any |::
::| more. It ceased to be fun, it ceased to be what it was supposed to be. |::
::| And god knows where it would've gone had we continued. |::
::| |::
::| Jill says that before it came apart you were writing totally separately |::
::| and bringing completed songs to each other, that the writing |::
::| collaboration had stopped. |::
::| |::
::| That did start to happen a wee bit but it didn't happen completely cos |::
::| we did actually still do a couple of songs together. We did do things |::
::| separately, then Jill wanted to sing on the ones she'd written and it |::
::| was splitting it into two singers now. Well, there was always two |::
::| singers cos we always both did harmonies and stuff like that. But we |::
::| did start to write separately, that's because we were communicating |::
::| less and less. |::
::| |::
::| What caused that? |::
::| |::
::| I don't know what caused it, it just kinda happened. I don't think it |::
::| was a deliberate thing, I really don't. I can't remember there being |::
::| any point where one of us decided to do that. |::
::| |::
::| I think actually Jill wanted to sing and she wanted to sing Who Knows |::
::| What Love Is? and the record company thought if it was going to be |::
::| released as a single then I should sing it, although she had sung it |::
::| live. It always reminded me of that band where one guy would start |::
::| singing and then the other would come in. Was it Tears For Fears? |::
::| |::
::| I don't know; fortunately my Tears for Fears trivia isn't that |::
::| extensive. |::
::| |::
::| I only know of them cos they were on the same management company as us. |::
::| Anyway, it just got a bit like that. |::
::| |::
::| It has worked well for some people, like the Clash, or The Beatles. |::
::| |::
::| We did start to write stuff separately, which is why I've got demos of |::
::| songs that would've been on the second album. I think it was also |::
::| because we were really really busy and there was less writing time. |::
::| Time at home was more precious. We did still write together but we did |::
::| start fighting a lot then as well though, we did have a lot of petty |::
::| wee stupid little arguments over who was singing what harmony, really |::
::| daft things. |::
::| |::
::| Actually, very embarrassingly, we were in the studio once and we had a |::
::| massive fight about who was going to sing a harmony of one bloody note |::
::| and it was sooo embarrassing, cos there were tears. It was with this |::
::| producer, the one who didn't like women [Jolene session, produced by |::
::| Clive Langer & Colin Fairley] and what do we do? We go in and react |::
::| like a pair of daft women! |::
::| |::
::| I was going, basically we do what's best for the song and if it's part |::
::| of the lead line then that's where it goes so I'll sing it. But then |::
::| Jill's saying 'I want to sing it, I sing the harmony lines and I'll |::
::| sing these ones,' or 'I'm not singing enough', then it got a bit 'you |::
::| can't play on the thing cos I'm the lead guitarist'. |::
::| |::
::| Like on Deep Water there's the guitar bit 'di-di-di-di-di-di-di-di di |::
::| di-do', - that was probably the first song I wrote actually - I wrote |::
::| that little lead line, and things like that became problems when Jill |::
::| was 'the lead guitarist' and I shouldn't be doing the lead lines cos |::
::| that's treading on her territory and it got a bit daft like that. Her |::
::| boyfriend used to say, 'you're letting Rose do too much,' stuff like |::
::| that. The reason was that Jill was actually ill, she was agoraphobic |::
::| and quite often couldn't do the meetings or whatever. There was a |::
::| legitimate reason why I was doing more, why I was travelling to London |::
::| while she stayed in Glasgow, because she COULDN'T, so it was a |::
::| necessity. |::
::| |::
::| But then at the end, well, my ex blamed her ex for mixing things and |::
::| making her feel insecure. I don't know if it's true. But stuff like |::
::| that was happening, and we just got to the stage where we started to |::
::| argue with each other about who was doing what and I didn't want her to |::
::| sing for the band, basically. |::
::| |::
::| How we do it, it works well, we do harmonies and stuff and it's good. |::
::| And I don't mind that there's a couple of songs that Jill always sang |::
::| and I did harmonies and I did the lead line on the guitar in some |::
::| sessions and we kinda swapped roles around a wee bit, which was really |::
::| good fun cos then you got to do the other side and I quite enjoyed |::
::| that, I like little toppy lead lines. But then when we did start |::
::| writing songs separately it was 'I wrote it so I want to sing it,' and |::
::| it was splitting down the middle anyway, right at the very end. That |::
::| was the very very end and we were falling apart then anyway cos there |::
::| was all this stuff that was... |::
::| |::
::| Jill says your social lives had become very different. |::
::| |::
::| They had. |::
::| |::
::| She said you were off with Genesis P-Orridge while she was at home with |::
::| the cat. |::
::| |::
::| She was a bit freaked out by a lot of the people that I was hanging out |::
::| with. |::
::| |::
::| She said you bought Nazi memorabilia and that really freaked her out. |::
::| |::
::| She said that I bought Nazi memorabilia? |::
::| |::
::| What's the story with that? |::
::| |::
::| I had a Hitler Youth dagger. Somebody bought me a Hitler Youth dagger |::
::| for my birthday. I've collected weapons since I was really young, |::
::| starting pistols, ornamental swords and things. I had a crossbow, a |::
::| slingshots, nunchakas, and stuff for martial arts, butterfly knives. I |::
::| practised with those things so I had them on that level. |::
::| |::
::| Somebody bought me a Hitler Youth dagger as a ritual dagger, because I |::
::| was into magic, which Jill was also freaked out by. I've always been |::
::| into it, since I was a kid I've been into stuff like that. |::
::| |::
::| I was always interested in the supernatural from when I was really |::
::| really young, cos weird things used to happen, and continued when I was |::
::| older. Like I set a tape on fire, mentally, because I didn't like a |::
::| song that we were recording. We were doing this song and I really |::
::| didn't like the beginning of it, but everybody else thought I was |::
::| wrong. I thought, the first note's out of tune, I know it's out of |::
::| tune. I was waiting for the head of the record company to come in and |::
::| say yeah, it's out of tune. and he came in and said, well done girls |::
::| it's in the bag. |::
::| |::
::| What song was this? |::
::| |::
::| It was Let Her Go. I thought the first note is REALLY out of tune and I |::
::| was staring at the tape machine and it started to smoke and it went on |::
::| fire. Even though I saw it I didn't tell anyone until it was really |::
::| obvious and they could smell it. |::
::| |::
::| I used to do stuff like that. It started to scare ME actually! I |::
::| stopped being really into magic when I had my son Bobby, because if bad |::
::| spirits come in they'll just go for the weakest easiest person to |::
::| possess. So I stopped being really into it then, because I was bringing |::
::| spirits into the house. |::
::| |::
::| Jill said it got a lot darker round the time the band split. |::
::| |::
::| What do you mean 'IT got darker'? |::
::| |::
::| Your involvement in magic. |::
::| |::
::| Well, I was always into magic, but I just got into it more, just |::
::| started practicing it much much more, proper rituals and stuff like |::
::| that. I did get into it quite heavily really. It was fine for a while, |::
::| and then I decided not to do it any more cos there were some bad |::
::| repercussions coming back. When I got pregnant I thought it was not a |::
::| good thing to do, I had some mishaps, magically. I thought, I can't |::
::| bring this on two little unsuspecting creatures. I still did tarot and |::
::| crystal gazing and stuff like that, and I'm still into palmistry and |::
::| everything. |::
::| |::
::| My great-grandmother was a Romany gypsy so I've always been into stuff |::
::| like that. I always had tarot cards when I was in Switchblade and |::
::| crystal balls and runes and everything like that. Me and Jill fell out |::
::| over that cos she didn't like it cos she thought it was black magic, |::
::| which it wasn't. She didn't understand what it was, really. I was doing |::
::| magic to fulfil myself and to better myself, to become wiser about |::
::| certain things. I was doing it to enrich my life and to become more |::
::| knowledgeable about things. I was not cursing people or anything! |::
::| |::
::| That's the stereotypical thing you get, not just magic but anything |::
::| remotely pagan, that it must be dark and dreadful and full of human |::
::| sacrifices. |::
::| |::
::| I'd class myself as pagan, certainly. Really I'm just into the earth |::
::| and everything around me and all the natural things which ARE pagan, |::
::| the things from before Christians came along and swept it all under |::
::| the...yew trees! You know, which they pretended came AFTER the churches |::
::| when the yew trees were there BEFORE the churches, they built churches |::
::| beside the sacred trees and people forgot the trees were there first. |::
::| |::
::| It's not just the sacred trees, there are loads of churches built next |::
::| to standing stones. Churches were originally built inside the sacred |::
::| stone circles and the spaces between stones was walled in. Even now |::
::| there's still a load of churches with standing stones in their walls. |::
::| This not only gave rise to the tradition of circular churchyards, but |::
::| the very word 'church' comes from the nordic 'kirk', the same root as |::
::| 'circ' in 'circle'. Their assimilation of pagan sacred places even |::
::| pinched the name! To replace paganism they had to demonise it, so loads |::
::| of old standing stones and wells are called things like 'the Devil's |::
::| Stones' or 'the Devil's Well', and anyone into pagan ideas and magic is |::
::| a spooky and dangerous. |::
::| |::
::| There's a well in the east of England - I can't remember exactly where |::
::| now - not so long ago they found deep in the well all these runes and |::
::| stuff, all about the Mother and a pagan goddess, whose name is very |::
::| similar to another goddess. They just changed it very slightly, just to |::
::| confuse. After a couple of generations, the real meaning of the word's |::
::| forgotten and people accept the new one cos that's all they hear. And |::
::| because back then people weren't that educated, not everybody could |::
::| read so it was very easy to manipulate people in that way. |::
::| |::
::| With modern historical research it's easier to see where religious |::
::| beliefs have come from, but before all the research had been done and |::
::| published, you could just take a goddess name and put the word 'saint' |::
::| in front of it, and a few generations later it's believed to have |::
::| always been christian. |::
::| |::
::| That whole thing did fascinate me, and that was a part of the magic I |::
::| was into. It was discovering who I was and why I was. |::
::| |::
::| Also, I did do things to contact people, like my friend who'd killed |::
::| herself. Her ghost did come to me, her spirit came to me on a few |::
::| occasions quite close after he had died. I saw things, I conjured |::
::| things. I was just completely open to all of that and welcomed it into |::
::| my life, but then it got a wee bit out of control at one point and I |::
::| was getting a wee bit too obsessed with it all. I was completely like, |::
::| with runes like The Dice Man or something! It was like, Rose! You don't |::
::| have to ask the runes if you can have this bar of chocolate! You can |::
::| decide that yourself! |::
::| |::
::| It wasn't quite that bad, but it got so I never went anywhere without |::
::| my runes or my tarot cards or something. It was just like my whole life |::
::| was a wee bag of magic somewhere. I'd disappear off into the woods at |::
::| night time when everybody was sleeping in a gypsy dress with my crystal |::
::| ball. |::
::| |::
::| There was this little wood up in Muswell Hill and it'd be poring with |::
::| rain one night and I'd just run into the wood with nothing on but a T |::
::| shirt and a pair of knickers and just stay there until the morning. And |::
::| then I'd go on the bus that the commuters were on, and my hair would be |::
::| all full of leaves and stuff and my legs would be all scratched up cos |::
::| I'd been running through the brambles! I just completely completely |::
::| wanted to be in the woods. I had a really good time at that point in my |::
::| life. But then after my friend died I got really depressed, really |::
::| quite manically depressed, I wasn't very well for a while. Which is |::
::| what made me decide to leave London, it was getting too much. |::
::| |::
::| The reason I used to function much better at the night time - I used to |::
::| write at night time, used to go out in the woods at night time, do a |::
::| lot of things at night time - was because everyone was asleep and all |::
::| those negative vibes weren't there, so that whole buzz that IS London |::
::| was kind of less of a buzz at night time. I felt much better for it, |::
::| the buzz was really starting to bug me. |::
::| |::
::| I'd started to distance myself from people, and that was a lot to do |::
::| with Strawberry Switchblade. When we went to Japan and we'd get mobbed |::
::| and stuff like that, and then I really started to resent people coming |::
::| too close to me, just expecting that they could, invading your privacy |::
::| like that, like you're public property. |::
::| |::
::| I actually now - Jill's got agoraphobia - I've got people-phobia. I |::
::| actually do. Sometimes I have a panic attack if I'm in a place with too |::
::| many people, especially if they're all moving in the same direction. |::
::| Like the Underground, people get off the train and it's really mobbed |::
::| and they're all moving in the same direction, I will just automatically |::
::| turn round and go the other way, because it just freaks me out going in |::
::| that sea of people, I know they're not...going where I'm going and I |::
::| don't want to go where they're going, I have to just go the other way. |::
::| |::
::| I think it was a thing about when I was a kid, going against the grain, |::
::| being different from other people, being into things other people |::
::| weren't into and they'd call you a weirdo for being into. I think it |::
::| was just a physical way of that coming out when I felt panicky with all |::
::| these people, all this dead energy and I just had to get out of there. |::
::| I had to get out of London. I just think it's much nicer out here where |::
::| you can see the birds, it's much better medicine. |::
::| |::
::| I was diagnosed with manic depression and that was after Kelvin as well |::
::| - anybody'd be depressed after him - I just thought I had to get out of |::
::| London, it wasn't a good place for me to be at that time, because I was |::
::| a wee bit self-destructive as well. |::
::| |::
::| In what way? |::
::| |::
::| Well, I went through this whole phase of challenging fate, doing |::
::| dangerous things and challenging fate. We were supposed to go to |::
::| Switzerland one day and I was in the woods at Hampstead. Just a couple |::
::| of friends who were doing a ritual and stuff like that, and I climbed |::
::| up this tree. I was taking something off all the way up the tree. Then |::
::| I fell out of the tree and I broke three ribs. I thought I was going to |::
::| die cos I looked down and my chest was just black; it was dark and I |::
::| thought 'oh my god, my heart's falling out cos it's all opened,' but it |::
::| was mostly just green stuff off the tree. I had scratches, a couple |::
::| deep enough to scar, but not terrible. But I was in so much pain cos |::
::| I'd broken three ribs. The ribs snapped and a splinter came out and it |::
::| was right beside my spleen. They were worried they were going to |::
::| rupture my spleen. And anyway, I couldn't go to Switzerland the next |::
::| day, so that was like a magical thing that came in and interfered with |::
::| Strawberry Switchblade I guess. After falling out of the tree I was in |::
::| bed for two months cos I just couldn't do anything. |::
::| |::
::| Even laughing's off the cards when you've done your ribs in. |::
::| |::
::| Exactly! My ex-husband was on tour with Psychic TV and I'd just fallen |::
::| out with Genesis P-Orridge not very long before that and he punched |::
::| Genesis P-Orridge! He was driving for them and Gen was slagging me off |::
::| or something and Drew just stopped, turned round and punched Gen right |::
::| in the nose. He comes up with this and I'm saying 'don't tell me! Don't |::
::| tell me' cos I couldn't stop laughing! |::
::| |::
::| But I did go through a really bad phase of being depressed and dicing |::
::| with danger. Like, running into the ocean when it was really really |::
::| dark every time I went to Brighton, which was a lot. This is all the |::
::| late 80s really, long after Strawberry Switchblade had split up. I was |::
::| just being self-destructive, I would cut myself to see if I would bleed |::
::| to death or if fate would win. I would do really mad stuff like that |::
::| cos I was really fucked up cos when my friend killed himself I really |::
::| thought it was my fault, blamed myself for it. Although it wasn't my |::
::| fault, he jumped in front of a train, and he always said he was going |::
::| to die when he was 23. But I said I'd visit him that night and I |::
::| didn't. I didn't cope with death very well cos of what happened to my |::
::| wee brother. |::
::| |::
::| I started getting into magic again - well I was still into it - but I'd |::
::| do ritual magic where I would cut myself at a point in the ritual to |::
::| energise it and sacrifice some of yourself. In order to gain something |::
::| you have to give, basically, and I was cutting myself a wee bit too |::
::| deep sometimes, deliberately, just to see what would happen, cos I just |::
::| didn't really care what happened. That was a pretty negative part of my |::
::| life, which was when London was doing my head in. I just thought, 'this |::
::| city is going to swallow me up, I'm going to have to get out of it'. It |::
::| was a mad time. |::
::| |::
::| It's really difficult to ask you about this stuff. It's so easy to seem |::
::| sensationalist or prying. I'm really glad there's nobody who wants to |::
::| look back over twenty years of MY life and get me to talk about all of |::
::| it, all the bits I'm really glad to have left behind. Coming back to |::
::| the Strawberry Switchblade era, the magic was something Jill talked |::
::| about and said it was a factor around your splitting up. I get the |::
::| impression she didn't ask to much though, she didn't try to understand |::
::| it. |::
::| |::
::| Understand what? |::
::| |::
::| What you were doing magically. |::
::| |::
::| Oh no, she didn't. She wouldn't ask about it, she never mentioned |::
::| anything except that she didn't like it and it was scary. She didn't |::
::| like a lot of the people around the time I was friends with Gen, she |::
::| didn't like a lot of those people, she thought they were freaks and |::
::| weirdos, she thought they were all evil really. I still hang about with |::
::| a lot of those people, like David Tibet and there's nothing evil about |::
::| him. In fact, he's a Christian now, weirdly. |::
::| |::
::| She didn't really know any of them, she just knew they were kind of... |::
::| dark, and into things that were not to her liking. They were absolutely |::
::| fine by me, I thought they were all very interesting, I was interested |::
::| in those things anyway. I enjoyed meeting and talking to these people |::
::| and seeing their points of view on things and putting my tuppence worth |::
::| in and having good conversations. |::
::| |::
::| Did it not freak you out, the Hitler Youth dagger? |::
::| |::
::| No, because it's only like army memorabilia, d'you know what I mean? At |::
::| first I thought, 'has this been used?'. I did think that, because the |::
::| one I got had a nick on the end. But a lot of those were never used, |::
::| they were for boy scouts; they are exactly the same as the boy scout |::
::| dagger except for the emblem. So really it didn't have any significance |::
::| in a Nazi way. There's no way that I'm a fascist or a Nazi. I think |::
::| Hitler was a very interesting man but he was totally off his fucking |::
::| rocker. It's fascinating to think that he could control a whole nation |::
::| like that. How the hell did he do that? |::
::| |::
::| There's something a bit simplistic in the way we're told it was just |::
::| him, the way history is boiled down to a few bogeymen when in fact they |::
::| were just part of a massive team. |::
::| |::
::| All the things he stood for; a super-race tall, blond and blue eyed - |::
::| he was short and dark! It's was a headfuck, how can he be promoting |::
::| that when it was everything he wasn't? He was obviously a twisted |::
::| little man right from the beginning. He was obviously very twisted and |::
::| sick. It is all completely sick and awful. |::
::| |::
::| Somebody actually sent me some bones from Auschwitz that they found |::
::| when they went to visit there, in a little box. I took them out and I |::
::| gave them a burial, a proper burial in a place that's somewhere special |::
::| to me and said said something to put them to rest. I couldn't do that, |::
::| I couldn't pick up something like that and take it away cos I think |::
::| it's disrespectful to the dead. I have complete respect for the remains |::
::| of someone who isn't here any more, and especially something like that. |::
::| People send me significant things, like that and a piece of the Berlin |::
::| Wall and whatever. |::
::| |::
::| Jill said you had a Nazi flag banner as well. |::
::| |::
::| I never had a flag. I knew someone who had one, but I never had one and |::
::| I don't believe there was ever one in the house. She's talking about a |::
::| flag isn't she? I didn't have a flag. |::
::| |::
::| But yeah, I had an interest in the Second World War, my grandfather |::
::| fought in it, d'you know what I mean? |::
::| |::
::| It does grab people because it was so audacious, Nazism wasn't like any |::
::| other militarism, it was done with such SHOWBIZ. |::
::| |::
::| It was so cunning and well-planned |::
::| |::
::| and yet so ostentatious with the big banners and Hugo Boss uniforms, |::
::| clearly interested in style and dazzle as well as practicality, so |::
::| overt, and that still astonishes us today like no other regime ever |::
::| has. |::
::| |::
::| I'd never thought about that, when you said showbiz, but it was really, |::
::| wasn't it? |::
::| |::
::| Absolutely! Putting a really distinctive symbol on everything that |::
::| everyone will recognise wherever it goes, you read about the rallies |::
::| with the deafening music as the speaker marches on, rather than just |::
::| someone walking on to a stage. |::
::| |::
::| It is fascinating, because it happened at all. How could that have ever |::
::| happened? |::
::| |::
::| We forget how prevalent things like militarism and eugenics were at the |::
::| time - they were common right across the world, but as we forget all of |::
::| them except the Nazis it makes the Nazis look even more extreme. |::
::| |::
::| And I think there's a cultural thing as well. The Japanese army could |::
::| be limkened to the German army with mishima and all that, the whole |::
::| pride and honour thing, it was another big showbiz thing. If you were |::
::| dishonoured in any way you had to kill yourself. I know it wasn't the |::
::| same thing, but the way it was so serious, it was everything, your |::
::| honour was everything. |::
::| |::
::| It's so weird for us because our culture only really values individual |::
::| happiness and money, it's so difficult for us to deal with ideals |::
::| outside of that. Out of the two cultures, I think we're more fascinated |::
::| by Nazis because the Japanese honour thing is more to do with your |::
::| internal workings whereas the Nazis was more to do with how other |::
::| people see you, and that resonates deeply with the consumerist |::
::| advertising culture we all live in, yet it was for a genocidal military |::
::| regime that we can't imagine living in. |::
::| |::
::| It fascinated me that it had ever happened at all, and in a time that |::
::| there were people still alive from. My grandfather was there, my mother |::
::| was four when the war ended. It's such a horrific thing to imagine |::
::| being in, especially if you have kids, your perception on things |::
::| changes, you get this instinct to protect. |::
::| |::
::| It's totally bizarre, I just can't imagine being in a war, I'd kill |::
::| myself rather than have to face that horror, cos it would destroy me |::
::| mentally. That's the whole thing about humanity; why does someone want |::
::| to kill somebody else? Maybe that's got a lot to do with my upbringing, |::
::| seeing how people can be so brutally cruel to somebody, chop off their |::
::| arm with a sword. I didn't tell you even half the stuff I had to |::
::| experience; some guy being killed with an ice-skating boot when I was |::
::| coming out of the ice-skating, got it stuck in his back. I put my |::
::| grandfather's scarf that he gave me, it was a real treasure, round this |::
::| guy's neck and my coat on him to try and keep him warm till the |::
::| ambulance came but he died on the way to hospital. I came across that |::
::| kind of thing a lot in Glasgow. The idea that someone could willingly |::
::| want to do something so awful to somebody, another human being, makes |::
::| me feel sick, it really actually makes me feel sick. I hate violence. |::
::| |::
::| Did you ever talk about any of this stuff with [NON mainman, Spell |::
::| collaborator and Jeremy Clarkson lookalike] Boyd Rice when you worked |::
::| with him [on the Spell records], cos he's got pretty outspoken views on |::
::| racial issues. |::
::| |::
::| He has or he did have or he's always had? |::
::| |::
::| Well, has had certainly. |::
::| |::
::| I actually asked Boyd about this cos I didn't want to be tarred with |::
::| that. Boyd is a really fascinating guy, he's super intelligent, he's a |::
::| really interesting guy. He says he's not a Nazi. It's not politics, he |::
::| just believes in the Darwin theory of survival of the fittest, |::
::| basically. |::
::| |::
::| But Darwin wasn't talking in social terms at all. By 'fittest', he |::
::| meant which traits promoted physical survival and reproduction. Having |::
::| loads of kids would be closer to Darwin's idea of fittest. |::
::| |::
::| Well he's had two! He's never said anything racist to me. I've talked |::
::| to him about it and he's said he now has to be careful about things he |::
::| says because people will misconstrue things. I'm sure he did wear |::
::| swastikas when he was a punk, a lot of punks did. |::
::| |::
::| There's a picture of him with the leader of the American Front, both of |::
::| them in the AF uniform. |::
::| |::
::| I haven't seen that. I saw pictures of him in rallies where he used to |::
::| do things for shock value, and with Monte Cazazza, another guy who'd do |::
::| performance art things purely to shock people. There's a lot of guys |::
::| that, when I first knew Boyd, were on the same kind of scene and would |::
::| all be in the same magazines like Monte Cazazza, one guy who made all |::
::| these mad metal things, one guy who blew his hand off, it was all mad |::
::| performance art stuff and Boyd would do things that were outrageous as |::
::| well. |::
::| |::
::| Boyd collects Barbie dolls, you know. He's really kitsch in a lot of |::
::| ways. His idea of Satanism for example - he was spokesman for the |::
::| Church of Satan when Anton LeVey was alive. The idea of the Church of |::
::| Satan is not to sacrifice things, it's just living your life how you |::
::| please; if you're into 60s girl bands - which they both were - to |::
::| celebrate that. To celebrate LIFE, not to do something that was evil. |::
::| Just to be who you are and do what you want and have that freedom. It |::
::| was like a kind of anarchism in a way. The way they looked at the |::
::| Church of Satan is was FUN. There were rituals and all this, but they |::
::| had fun doing it and they weren't harming anybody when they were doing |::
::| it. There are other Church of Satans and I'm sure a lot of them are |::
::| pretty dodgy, but their one seemed pretty harmless to me. And I know |::
::| Boyd well enough to know that he's not evil. |::
::| |::
::| I don't like people who want to harm somebody just for the sake of |::
::| harming somebody. I always get asked these things about Boyd. People |::
::| ask me about Doug Pierce and Boyd Rice from Death In June and NON, cos |::
::| I've worked with both. The two people that I know personally and quite |::
::| well are not what other people have perceptions of. The thing about |::
::| Doug is he is a man of honour, if he says he'll do something he will do |::
::| it. Honour and self-respect and the idea that someone's word is worth |::
::| something, that friendship really means something. I have a small group |::
::| of friends that I've known for a few years that I feel that close to. |::
::| Tibet and Coil, those are the people that I'm really that close to, |::
::| that I will always be that close to, they're like my own blood and they |::
::| feel the same way. |::
::| |::
::| When I met Doug I really liked the fact that he was a really strong |::
::| person, a strong character that really believed in honour and |::
::| self-respect and self-discipline and stuff like that. He never struck |::
::| me as being a fascist. I don't know where he's going with his life |::
::| right now cos I haven't been in contact with him a lot, so I've really |::
::| no idea what he's up to. And it's not my place to talk about anybody |::
::| else's politics anyway. I can't speak for Doug, I can't speak for Boyd, |::
::| I can't speak for anybody but myself. |::
::| |::
::| I talked to Boyd recently, but I haven't saw Doug for a long time, but |::
::| there's no way that I would condone any of that because I think it is |::
::| completely sick and my family would have been persecuted as well, |::
::| because they were Romany gypsies. Doug is gay, so he would've been |::
::| persecuted. There's all these contradictions - how could he believe |::
::| that if he'd be front of the queue for the gas chamber? It just doesn't |::
::| make sense. I'm not for people persecuting anybody. |::
::| |::
::| So much of this stuff is written accusing people, it's good to give the |::
::| opportunity for you to respond. We could move on and even talk about |::
::| some Strawberry Switchblade stuff if you like! |::
::| |::
::| Ah, the letters were S.S.! What's that all about then? Subliminals in |::
::| there. |::
::| |::
::| Imagine the SS in polka dot uniforms, there's an image to conjour with. |::
::| |::
::| With flowers in their hair. |::
::| |::
::| The songwriting credit for Black Taxi. It's credited to you, Jill, |::
::| Balfe and Mulhearne. Who was Mulhearne? |::
::| |::
::| Mulhearne? I have no idea. |::
::| |::
::| Jill has no idea either. She said a lot of the songs near the end she |::
::| didn't have a lot to do with and maybe it was one of those, which kind |::
::| of implies it would have more to do with you. |::
::| |::
::| Black Taxi I remember because we were writing it in the studio as we |::
::| were doing the session, like finishing the lyrics in the studio. Balfey |::
::| came up with the keyboard stuff. Drew, my husband then, did a lot of |::
::| the sequencing stuff. I wrote the lyrics and sang it. I don't know a |::
::| Mulhearne! I have no idea, unless it was the engineer or something. |::
::| Maybe it's Balfey's alter-ego so he gets half the money! |::
::| |::
::| There is actually stuff like that with him! There was a 7 inch EP that |::
::| came free with some Littlewoods promotion, four retro hits like Thin |::
::| Lizzy Whiskey In The Jar, and one was Reward by the Teardrop Explodes. |::
::| That was written by Alan Gill and Julian Cope, yet the EP credits it to |::
::| Gill and Balfe. Let's not name names, but somebody made sure Balfe got |::
::| the money instead of Cope! It's amazing that neither of you know of |::
::| anyone called Mulhearne yet you allegedly wrote a song together. |::
::| |::
::| I don't remember anyone else even being in the studio apart from the |::
::| engineers, cos it was a radio session. |::
::| |::
::| How much did you have to do with any of the 12 inch remixes? |::
::| |::
::| [assorted can-of-worms oh-dear-me phonetics] I had an incredible |::
::| massive fight with Balfey and Bill Drummond and one of them cos they |::
::| said, 'ah we'll just go in the studio and mix it'. I said you won't, I |::
::| want to hear it. They said, 'you don't need to be there'. I need to be |::
::| there! It's my song! So I go down to the studio and they were |::
::| completely blanking me out. I was saying things and they were just, 'be |::
::| quiet Rose'. |::
::| |::
::| Do you remember which one it was? |::
::| |::
::| It was more likely to be something like Jolene or Let Her Go or |::
::| something like that. I tried all I could to muster up the energy to |::
::| destroy that tape but it wasn't happening. So I put a spell on Balfey. |::
::| And it's still sealed in the notepad I had then that I used to write my |::
::| lyrics and stuff. I'm too scared to let it out in case it happens, cos |::
::| I was so angry! So if Balfey ever gets hit by a car, it's my fault. |::
::| Especially if I'm driving it! |::
::| |::
::| With Let Her Go they did that Kitchensynch Mix which has five names |::
::| credited for remixing. Balfe and Drummond got Youth and others in for |::
::| that. |::
::| |::
::| I wasn't there for that session, they did that one without even telling |::
::| us they were doing it. So I probably put my foot down at that point and |::
::| said I want to know, so the argument would probably have been Jolene. |::
::| |::
::| The others don't give any credits for remixers so we can't tell. It was |::
::| such a weird thing in the 80s, you couldn't just release a single, you |::
::| had to put a seven and a twelve inch out, and the twelve inch would |::
::| have to have a longer version. It doesn't matter how good and perfect |::
::| the seven inch was, it doesn't matter how rubbish the twelve inch was. |::
::| It didn't have to be any better, just LONGER, just turn everything off |::
::| and leave the drum machine going for a while. |::
::| |::
::| Have a little prelude, and instrumental part. Twelve inches are for |::
::| albums, seven inches are for singles. I was heartbroken when there |::
::| stopped being seven inch singles. |::
::| |::
::| It's the definitive pop format. |::
::| |::
::| It is, it is. I've still got lots, and I still buy lots of seven inches |::
::| from Oxfam and that, cos I love them. It's a perfect little art form. |::
::| |::
::| It's perfect - like Echo Beach - do you want the album, do you want |::
::| four extra tracks or remixes that you have to program your player not |::
::| to play, or do you want to put it on, it plays Echo Beach, then it |::
::| finishes? |::
::| |::
::| Or you get one of those old players where you stack them up - I've got |::
::| one of them, so you can play them like you used to when you were a wee |::
::| lass. I mean CDs are great for what they are |::
::| |::
::| For ambient stuff especially |::
::| |::
::| But for artwork, they lack, they don't come anywhere near a really good |::
::| album sleeve which is a really good size that you can see and you can |::
::| touch. |::
::| |::
::| When did you find out about the Japanese CD reissue of the album? Did |::
::| they tell you in advance? |::
::| |::
::| No. They didn't tell anyone. Someone just told me they saw it and said, |::
::| was it a bootleg? I saw it and it wasn't a bootleg it was Warner |::
::| Brothers. I even advised people to buy that one, because it's got more |::
::| tracks on it. |::
::| |::
::| Have you seen which extra tracks they are? Trees And Flowers extended |::
::| mix, Since Yesterday extended mix even though the normal version's on |::
::| there. And yet no Sunday Morning! They're in the vaults and they choose |::
::| the 12 inch mix of Since Yesterday over Sunday Morning! Who was that |::
::| person and can I please slap them? |::
::| |::
::| I know, it's true. Especially the Japanese singles. |::
::| |::
::| What's that, apart from Ecstasy? Did I Can Feel only come out in Japan |::
::| too? |::
::| |::
::| Yeah. |::
::| |::
::| I've always thought those two are really anomalous. What are they? |::
::| |::
::| They're nightmares. Ecstasy was basically an advert for something, I |::
::| can't remember what it was now. |::
::| |::
::| Subaru cars. |::
::| |::
::| I thought that was the one they put Since Yesterday over. But it could |::
::| have been. They used Since Yesterday just as it was over a car advert. |::
::| Ecstasy, they called it 'Apple'. |::
::| |::
::| 'Ecstasy (Apple Of My Eye)'. |::
::| |::
::| 'Apple of My Eye'? Where did that come from? It was nothing to do with |::
::| me. The song was called Ecstasy, that was part of the joke of it. They |::
::| don't know what I'm talking about but I know what I'm talking about; |::
::| some people will know, some people won't know. |::
::| |::
::| How did you end up doing that? Did you understand what it was like? |::
::| |::
::| It was a nightmare, that period. We did another stupid jingle for Shock |::
::| Waves hairspray, and that was fucking atrocious as well. With Ecstasy |::
::| they actually sent us the lyrics, and asked us to write the music for |::
::| it. I said I'm not singing those lyrics. So I rewrote the lyrics which |::
::| were just silly, but whatever. We just made a few bad mistakes at the |::
::| end of our career, basically. Mostly Balfey pushed from behind, dollar |::
::| signs popping up in his eyes. All that money that we didn't really see |::
::| from those adverts. You get paid for doing stuff like that. |::
::| |::
::| Of course, why else would you do it? |::
::| |::
::| Exactly. And when I saw the advert I just thought [incredulous wince]. |::
::| It's got these Japanese girls sprawled over the car like in those |::
::| horrible car magazines where they have a dolly bird. It was like, oh |::
::| Jesus, another nail in the coffin. |::
::| |::
::| What's the story with I Can Feel? |::
::| |::
::| What d'you mean 'story'? |::
::| |::
::| Well, Ecstasy was basically an advert turned into a single, but I Can |::
::| Feel was another Japanese-only single. |::
::| |::
::| I Can Feel was a song that was actually properly written as a song. |::
::| It's a good song, but the production left a lot to be desired I think. |::
::| That would probably have been on the second Switchblade album, but done |::
::| completely differently. |::
::| |::
::| There was this other thing that we did, we did a bit of a soundtrack |::
::| for an Ursula Le Guin story called Rigel 9 [David Bedford album 'Rigel |::
::| 9', see discography]. The guy that did some of the orchestration on the |::
::| Switchblade album asked us to do it. There's this part in the book |::
::| where there's a procession of little aliens, it's a funeral procession |::
::| and they're mourning, and he got us to do the vocals for it, these high |::
::| little alien voices. I don't actually know if there's a movie or |::
::| anything, but you'd wonder why there was a soundtrack if not. |::
::| |::
::| After you split with Jill, she said you did some gigs with someone |::
::| else. |::
::| |::
::| I did a couple of Strawberry Switchblade gigs, but it wasn't with |::
::| someone instead of her, it was me with two of Primal Scream, Lawrence |::
::| from Felt, two of the Weather Prophets. It was kind of a wee bit like a |::
::| Creation supergroup! |::
::| |::
::| One was the best gig I've ever done. I took a tab of acid before I went |::
::| on stage, which I would never recommend to anybody, and I would never |::
::| have thought that I would've done it myself. First gig after Strawberry |::
::| Switchblade have split up, so what does Rose do? Something completely |::
::| fucking off the wall! |::
::| |::
::| Before I went into the venue it was a full moon that night, and I |::
::| thought, oh COOL. It was in Brighton, and there was the full moon |::
::| reflecting off the ocean, it was just gorgeous. I went into the venue |::
::| and I was really nervous, and I took this acid. I went out on stage and |::
::| I swear I don't know HOW I remembered the songs! I think it was because |::
::| of the moon, because I looked at the back of the hall and there was a |::
::| spotlight, and I was thinking WOW! COOL! The moon's come to my gig! |::
::| What an honour! Because I was so elated about the moon being there, I |::
::| wasn't thinking about the songs, I just played them naturally. It got |::
::| reviewed as being the best pop band ever! |::
::| |::
::| The trick with doing anything on acid is to distract yourself from |::
::| thinking about the process of doing it. If you're running and you start |::
::| thinking about your legs and the ground you'll stumble, but if you're |::
::| concentrating on what you're heading towards then it's fine. It'd |::
::| probably be easier cos it was songs that have been part of you for so |::
::| long. |::
::| |::
::| A lot of the songs were new songs, they weren't old Strawberry |::
::| Switchblade songs like Jill and I would've done. It was me moving on |::
::| and still keeping the name, basically. Cos it was my name in the |::
::| beginning, cos I got it from James Kirk. But Jill didn't like me to use |::
::| it because it was associated with both of us, and so I ended up not |::
::| using it. Although I should've still used it if I was going to keep |::
::| doing that sort of stuff. I thought it was silly to fight over it. I |::
::| know people associated it with Jill and I, but things change and people |::
::| change and bands change, and sometimes bands keep the same name but the |::
::| people in the band are different. |::
::| |::
::| Anyway, I only did two gigs, one in London and one in Brighton, I think |::
::| it was the Escape Club in Brighton. The one in London was a bit of a |::
::| nightmare, I'm afraid. MTV were at that one. They only filmed one song, |::
::| Angel, and they did that mostly in the soundcheck. It was just those |::
::| two gigs with a bunch of people from Creation Records that were in |::
::| bands that I liked and were mates, basically. |::
::| |::
::| And it was really good fun, and it sounded brilliant cos they were all |::
::| brilliant musicians, the guitars, it was just orgasmic. The keyboards |::
::| and everything just sounded brilliant, they all fell into the songs |::
::| really really well. It was good fun being on stage with a REAL group, |::
::| not a machine, not a bunch of session musicians. Being in a group, you |::
::| could turn and look at your friend and smile, you were all there |::
::| together, it was really good fun. I loved it, it's one of my best |::
::| memories of playing live. |::
::| |::
::| Do you see any influence of Strawberry Switchblade in anything that's |::
::| come subsequently? |::
::| |::
::| It's happened a few times actually, but I can't remember what. There's |::
::| that band that quite blatantly called themselves something like |::
::| Strawberry Switchblade. What was it? Some American band [Switchblade |::
::| Symphony?] You always see little interviews in goth magazines and stuff |::
::| like that. And they used to wear polka dot dresses right at the |::
::| beginning of their career. They said that they weren't influenced by |::
::| us, they weren't copying Strawberry Switchblade. The polka dot dresses |::
::| would have given it away, really. |::
::| |::
::| The one that really got me, I remember the first time I heard Linger by |::
::| the Cranberries, the way she's put the harmonies on herself, it's so |::
::| Switchblade. The gentle swoony guitar is similar too, but the vocals |::
::| are spot on. If you see Strawberry Switchblade as part of that Postcard |::
::| Records thing, there's certainly an influence from that scene. There's |::
::| a big indie sub-genre of bands that clearly love their Postcard |::
::| records, the most prominent I'd say is Belle & Sebastian, where there's |::
::| a delicate and intelligent pop thing going on. It's really noticeable |::
::| when Belle & Sebastian put the two female voices together. |::
::| |::
::| I've heard a couple of Belle & Sebastian things, I got them on a |::
::| compilation that came with a fanzine. I do want to go and see them, |::
::| I've heard they're a really good band. |::
::| |::
::| My mum has called a couple of times when she's heard something on the |::
::| radio saying it sounded like me! There have been a couple of things |::
::| where I thought, 'that really sounds like me! I don't remember doing |::
::| that track! What was I on that day?!'. |::
::| |::
::| |::
::| |::
::::. ....................................................... .::::
: : : TRACKLIST : : :
:...:.......:.....................................................:.......:...:
No : Title : : time : :
....:.......: :.......:...:
: :
01. Die 04:36 : :
02. Forgive Me 04:41 : :
03. Songbird 03:14 : :
04. Dew of the Sea 01:25 : :
05. Emptiness 03:40 : :
06. Ice and I 02:43 : :
07. Ruby Tears 02:21 : :
08. Darkness 05:47 : :
09. Loki and Evil 04:23 : :
10. -- 00:10 : :
11. -- 00:10 : :
12. -- 00:10 : :
13. Under the Yew Possessed 03:20 : :
......:...:
Total: 36:40 min:
:
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::| |::
::| As time goes by, the world matures. PsyCZ has matured and the scene has |::
::| matured. PsyCZ started releasing in VBR over two years ago, and was met |::
::| with skepticism. As time went by, more and more realised that VBR is |::
::| superiour to cbr 192. Finally, in 2004, VBR is allowed by the scene. |::
::| PsyCZ will also in 2004 continue to bring you the finest psychedelic |::
::| trance music from around the world, as we have since 2001. |::
::| |::
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::|_________________ |::
_______________ Greetings go out to everyone |::
___________ doing this for the love. |::
_______ Specially the veteran groups ;) |::
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⌐ PsyCZ 2004 ___________________________________________CRC:XXXX:XXXX_|::